Your feelings on map protection?

Ah, thats what I thought. perhaps a combination of them would stop the map stealers.I happen to like the string idea the best. I guess that the best way would be to hide a command like the abovementioned and then put the whole trigger in JASS.

Hmmm...

I'll have to agree with Maegus on this subject, sure Alpha is right about the fact that the person has the 'right' to edit the file, but the sad fact is you can't really release an unprotected map without it getting edited to hell (and in most cases not for the better, but for worse). It's great when people actually make nice edits to maps and actually improve on the work, but when people drive it into the ground, thats what pisses me off. Honestly, I don't care if my battle net name is on my friggin map, I'm into making maps for playing games that I would like to see on battle net, and when I release it, I would love to see people improve upon it, and not make trash out of it. It's a tough choice: Unprotected or protect? I think I'm going to have to go with the lame way out, but probably the best... the whole permission thing.

Edit: Quick note about my opinion on the 'permission for editing', I believe its the best way to go about protection because people who honestly want to make an improved version of the map or actually want to learn from it can talk to you, and most people who just dont care and want to edit it for the hell of it probably won't put out the extra effort to get past the protection..

Yeah, that's true... you can't prevent people from making bad maps, that's their own business. But as I said, the reason I make maps is so that I can see something that I would like to play that I haven't seen yet... or something like that, basically, making maps that I would like to play... and if people just started editing the map and ruining it, then obviously thats just no good... on the other hand, people can edit it for better... so it kinda evens out. So anyways, I don't care of lousy maps exist. I just don't want my map turning into something lousy, or something I really never intended it to be in the first place.

I don't care if I don't own the file on someone else's computer, but when someone takes the time to make a map, I would have to say they 'own' it, maybe not legally, but come on now.
(Edit: just would like to point out that regardless of who's name is on the map, the person who actually created the map will always be the creator)


If a new map maker comes along and makes a great new map, his name won't necessarily stick in people's minds... people are only usually known by lots of people if they release top quality maps over a pretty long period of time, or make a single popular map and keep it updated for a very long time.

Like I said, I honestly don't care much about my name being on the map, I don't take much glory in being 'popular' in the WC3 world... not a big thrill. My deal is, I don't care if people modify maps, my biggset fear is if people ruin the map. There's a handful of maps out there right now that could be good if they didnt get trashed by some dude that just modified it and ruined it... Since you can't have both (no cheap spoofs of your maps, but good updates from other people), I think it would be best just to protect the map..

Exerting too much power... well, here's what it comes down to in my opinion. I don't really care about anything except this: I would rather have my map unmodified than the chance of being 'ruined'. Simple.

Edit: Its a shame that it kinda has to be that way.

Yeah, you can do what ever you want to maps, but it's a whole different story when it gets on battle net, and you're right... but I still hold to my opinion. If I'm going to make a map, I'm going to want to play it with other people online, and I don't want the map to be jacked up....

mm... you don't really modify their files, i mean, no one forced them to download the map from your game... they just download the files that you modified. Hosting a map is like putting a download up on a website.

edit: For clarity, all of this crap I have said is just my two cents on the subject, when I refer to the maps I talk about as 'mine', it might seem like I've produced lots of maps, or at least some maps... but it's just talk.

Whoa I started a debate ^_^ . Thanks for your opinions I have taken them into consideration.

a person has every right to protect/corrupt/whatever his or her map. its their file, right? so dont try to say that a person shouldn't do that, because you'd be contradicting your own logic.

"it is a waste of my time"
is it really so hard to set aside 2 or 3 minutes of your time and send a quick e-mail to someone, wait or day or two, then take about 1 minute to open up his response? nobody's time is that precious... if you really feel that way, then you're just being lazy

"2) It is invasive of my privacy to do what I want to my maps."

that doesn't make protection wrong. the maker obviously isn't intending for you to do anything you want to his map anyways. if he protects it, too bad. otherwise, you're free to do whatever you want with it. you have no right to an unprotected version. it's not yours. you only own that protected one.

"It is like being required to ask microsoft if you can install a new program on your operating system."

that is a false analogy. we're not talking about installation here, we're talking about editing.... and im pretty damn sure microsoft wouldn't like you editing their programs and releasing them as your own.


people ought to respect a mapmaker if they like his map. as i said before, you wouldnt even have that file if it wasn't for him. he GAVE it to you. if you have no intention of respecting the mapmaker, then im pretty damn sure you have no intention of respecting the map either after you unprotect it. a person who has to resort to breaking the protection without the maker's permission probably isn't going to make an honest map.

Nicely put... but something I would like to say:


If you think about it, protecting the map and editing it (and anything else for that mater) is done all on your computer, and once you put it up on battle net, the people who download the map are just getting the final product of it and you never actually modify the files once the file is on their computer.

Yes. It is my file. If i want to protect, I will. I'm not giving myself some privelege. I'm just doing what I want with my file. Just like you do what you want with your files. I make my file as I see fit, and then I give it to other people. If I do not want them rigging it, then I won't let them. I never said I owned their files. Read carefully, please.



Aren't the variables and such still obfuscated when you unprotect the map, though, making it more trouble? Being someone who respects other people's creations, I wouldn't really know, so you'll have to clarify on that...


You keep missing my points. I never said it was still my map. I give my map to them. It is theirs. I'm not extending any power over them, I'm just creating my map as I see fit. Are we clear on that? i AGREE on that point. Next, like i said before *rolls eyes*, I do not protect my map because I am want the map all to myself, and I am not paranoid that people will do a better job than I will. I do it because people will nearly always flood Battle.net with rigged versions and maybe one honest version; that just means much trouble for everyone, especially me.


No, it is not quite accurate. Microsoft intends for you to install their software, so you will never require their permission. The mapmaker would only protect it if he did not intend for a person to edit it. That's the key difference.



*sigh* I really hate repeating myself. A mapmaker protects his map because he doesn't want people to screw it up. He doesn't do it just to be selfish. When you unprotect his map without his permission, then you disrespect him, because he obviously made it clear that he did not want you to do that.


This time, I'm just going to point you to the paragraphs above. Read them 2 or 3 times if you have to... if you still have problems understanding what I'm saying... well, I can't help you.


I'm not modifying user rights. I'm just modifying my file. I make my map as I see fit. You can't tell me what to do, just like I can't tell you what to do. Next, the worldeditor doesn't lose ANY functionality. I have made every single one of my maps from scratch. I didn't need to unprotect someone else's map just to figure something out. If I have a question, then there's tons of people on these forums to help me out. If I'm still having trouble, then they could send me an unprotected version of their map. All I have to do just give them a little common courtesy and ASK first.

nah, those are old solutions...

Just wait until I release it, just like in 5/6 years

I will distribute my map as much as I want. You can have the file, but it's going to be protected. You're not entitled to anything. You're given what you given, and you shouldn't expect any more than that. Blizzard apparently doesn't have any quiffs with map protection, anyways. The majority of maps that float around Battle.net are protected, and Blizzard does nothing to stop it. I consider it implied consent, despite what the EULA might say. However, if Blizzard tells me that I am forbidden from using map protection, then I will gladly stop. Why? Not because of an EULA, but because I respect them. They made the game, I love it, and I love them.


Map protection is not malicious. In fact, its intention is to shield the map from people with malicious intentions. Maybe that's why Blizzard has no objections to it... Also, like I said before, you're only given what you're given. You're not entitled to any rights over any map anyone gives you.


Paranoid? Just isn't true? I've already told you at least twice that it's happened before to me, not to mention how many times I've seen it happen to other maps. You HONESTLY don't think this happens very often?


Just like you ought to ask a maker to unprotect and edit his map and release your own version, you need to ask Microsoft for permission to conduct similar actions on its own programs. Most people won't even do this, so it's not a very big inconvenience.


See paragraph 1...


Obviously. I already told you I agreed. Quit bringing that up.


See paragraph 1 once again...

If Blizzard tells me they don't want me using map protection, I'll stop. I don't feel that they have any problem with this particular method. Implied consent.


Map protection only corrupts a map for someone who wants to make a version that the maker doesn't want made. In other words, a rigged version. If he wants to make an honest version, he can ask for an unprotected map. I don't see anything wrong with that. Not contributing anything to the community? What the hell are you talking about? The maps are still PLAYABLE, aren't they? That's the primary purpose of a map. The loss of being able to rig it is no big deal.


I will still attempt to prevent malicious action from other people.


It happens very often. I've seen tons of edited maps... are we even playing the same game? I'm not saying that nearly all maps on Battle.net have rigged versions floating around. That would be incorrect because map protection is what is preventing that.

It's not like I'm getting any user profit. Like I said, I'm just preventing malicious action. Second, you're falsely relating poor with broken. There's plenty of good protected maps out there.... the better they are, the more people there are that want to rig them.

They may not support it, but they certainly aren't against it.


The problem is that hardly anyone ever makes it into something useful. That's why I started protecting my maps in the first place. I tried releasing my map as open source. It became quite popular, but there were about a million versions out there that weren't worth sh*t.




I'll do what I can with the protector.


No. The reason you continue to see the same genres are because:

1. People like them and they want to play more of them. That's why you see other genres carry over from Starcraft into WC3.

2. People aren't creative enough to conceive a brand-new genre everytime they make a map.

Only open maps thrive? What about DOTA? That map was protected and held a strong grip for a long while. FMVH? ToB? (Still pretty recent, but I think anyone can agree that it will stick around for a long while) There's plenty of other examples.

Maps thrive primarily on quality. Editability doesn't do much because virtually noone wants to make good mods.


Of course I won't play it. The reason I want to protect my maps is because in the long run it does more for the community that it does against it. It prevents rigging.

Like I said, I can lock my own file if I want to, because it's on my hard drive, and it's my file. Then I give it to people who want it. Then that locked file is theirs. If they want an unlocked file, they ask me. I don't have to make my file a certain way before I can give it to people. Nobody has the right to demand it from me. They get what they didn't pay for. If they don't want a file that they can't rig, then they can go get a different file. They don't have to download that file. The only way they'll ever "own" an editable version is if either I give it to them, or if you just break into it.