War2 - Couple of jobs needed!!

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08-01-2003, 08:11 PM	#31
Quantum_Leap	Well actually... I'm going on Vacation for a week so if ni wants to do the upgrades it's fine with me... I'll be back around the 10th... so i'll talk to you guys then

08-01-2003, 08:39 PM	#32
Knight of Ni	Ok, I'll do the upgrades then.

08-01-2003, 11:04 PM

#33

Knight of Ni

Ok, I just found out our goal to completely recreate the WC2 campaign may turn out harder than we had expected.
Firstly it appears that there is no way to proberly recreate spells like exorcism and the old version of Blizzard without using triggers (which I am not very good at) since there are no spells like them in WC3.
Also I found out that the combat systems of the two games are very different. The WC3 system goes like this:
Your damage is a random number from between your minimum and maximum damage, and thenafter it is reduced by the armor of the attacked unit which is a percentage (like I do 17-23(average 20) damage which is then reduced by lets say 30% for a total average of 14 damage).
While the WC2 system goes like this (quote from B.net):

Quote:

Unit Statistics
A unit has four ratings that determine how effective it is in combat. Hit Points indicate how much damage the unit can take before dying; an ogre with 90 Hit Points can take quite a bit more damage than a Grunt with 60 Hit Points. Armor reflects not only armor worn by the unit, but its innate resistance to damage. All buildings have an automatic armor rating of 20. Basic Damage is how much normal damage the unit can inflict every time it attacks. This is lowered by the target's Armor rating. Piercing Damage reflects how effective the unit is at bypassing armor. Magical attacks, like dragon's breath and lightning, ignore armor.
The Equation
When one unit attacks another, the formula used to determine damage is:
(Basic Damage - Target's Armor) + Piercing Damage = Maximum damage inflicted
The attacker does a random amount of damage from 50%-100% of this total each attack. An Example of Combat in Warcraft II
An ogre and a footman are engaged in combat. The ogre has a Basic Damage rating of 8, and a Piercing Damage rating of 4. The footman has an Armor value of 2. Every time the ogre attacks the footman, it has the potential to inflict up to (8-2)+4=10 points of damage, or it could inflict as little as 50% damage, or 5 points. On average, the ogre will kill the footman in about 8 swings.
The poor footman, on the other hand, with a Basic Damage of 6 and a Piercing Damage of 3, will only inflict 3 or 5 points of damage each time he attacks the ogre, which has an Armor value of 4 (that's (6-4)+3=5). Even if the footman is extremely lucky and does the maximum amount of damage with every attack, it will take 18 swings to kill that 90 Hit Point ogre. By that time, the ogre will have pounded him into mincemeat and moved on.
Upgrades
The most important thing to remember with upgrades is that weapon upgrades affect Piercing Damage. If the same footman from the above example waited until he had a double weapon upgrade, he would be able to inflict up to (6-4)+3+4=9 points of damage with each attack, which is almost twice what he was doing before. You can see now why Elven Rangers are devastating in numbers; fully upgraded, they will always do at least 6 points of damage with each attack against any target.
Summary
This tip may not change the way you play Warcraft, but hopefully it will give you a little more insight into the inner workings of the game. Try playing around with the unit combat values in the Unit Editor to see how you can change the balance. Lowering a unit's Hit Points and raising its Armor, for instance, makes it more vulnerable to magical attacks but increases its effectiveness against normal troops. You may also find that against some players, you're better off upgrading your basic troops than researching new ones, especially if they like to attack early. It's Warcraft's flexibility that gives it longevity. Above all, have fun!

08-01-2003, 11:50 PM

#34

Lucky_K

lol hmmm...
well as for the spells, there is a way of editing it by editing the .slk file. its far more complicated, but u can edit much more things that way, but I'm not good at that stuff

as for the attacking, i guess its near impossible to recreate it exactly, so for now, lets just ignore ALL that stuff. Just edit the original attack damage, and the HP.

So basically it will still be a recreation all except the damaging, which will just use the Warcraft III way.

We might edit that little stuff in a later version, but lets just stick to what we know we can do first.

sorry if this is a little confusing, it's hard to explain.:bgrun:

08-01-2003, 11:55 PM	#35
Knight of Ni	Maybe we could recreate some of the combat system with the Mountain Giant's Hardened Skin ability, it will probably take some time, but it should be possible.

08-02-2003, 12:10 AM	#36
Lucky_K	well if you or someone is willing to do it, then go for it!

08-02-2003, 01:20 PM	#37
Knight of Ni	Ok, I'm gonna give a try at it since I am already doing the spells and uprgrades.

08-03-2003, 07:54 PM	#38
Knight of Ni	I'm very sorry about this, but there are just many of the spells that I can't get to work properly, and even more ones that I have no idea of how to create, so I think we should have someone else do the spells, or loosen up about how strickt we want to go to the WC2 abilities.

08-04-2003, 02:04 AM	#39
Lucky_K	what spells are you having trouble with? I guess you don't have to make them exactly the same, just relatively close. Spells like death coil and bloodlust could stay the same

08-04-2003, 03:24 PM

#40

Knight of Ni

Well, here is a list:

Runes: All 5 runes appear in the same place, and they only explode when the enemy steps on them, they are supposed to be indiscriminate.
Healing: By some wierd reason it only replenishes mana (I based it on the Moon Well's spell that replenishes bothe mana and life)
Death Coil, you can't target what units you want to attack with it and it is too slow (I based it on Locust swarm since I found out it was AoE and that it drains life).
Fireball: it doesn't wait with doing damage till it reaches the target.
Flame shield: it still shows the lightning shield though it was supposed to have been changed.

Spells that I have no idead of how to make:

Blizzard/D&D: It uses different amounts of mana depending on how long it is cast, and it increases in intensity the longer it is cast.
Unholy Armor: It takes half of a units life but makes it invurnerable for an amount of time.
Exorsism: I uses mana depending on how much damage it does, also the damage is spread out if there is more than one unit in the targeted area.
Haste: it has different effects on different units.

All the spells that I have not mentioned work just as they were supposed to.

08-04-2003, 08:09 PM	#41
Lucky_K	well the spells that you have no idea how to make just leave them and maybe we'll add in a later version or another option is to just use the warcraft III version of them like blizzard and unholy armour

08-04-2003, 09:21 PM

#42

thegnome

Quote:

Originally posted by Lucky_K
thegnome - could u try to post a close-up screen shot for us?

here close your eyes... THAT's the reason WHY we need a skinner :D :D

08-04-2003, 11:28 PM

#43

Ramzuel Ariuz

I want to tell you guys that recreating the WAr2 experience is one of things i want it to since W3: ROC release and know is easier to do because of ships and more options that the world editor now have.

IÂ´m interested to help you guys in anything.

This my intro, I started doing the campaing 4 days ago, I trying to do the DArk Portal experience because of the heroes and the story.

Plz rate this map
If you have suggestion tell me.
And if you think i can help tell me, too

08-05-2003, 12:48 AM	#44
Lucky_K	ROFL that is bad! (the close-up pic i mean) ok everyone I've got bad news. The sound on my pc isn't working rite so i sent it in for repairs i mite not get it back for 3-6 weeks :( im usin my frends pc rite now, but he doesn't have warcraft 3 so i won't be able to do anything at all right now... I'm really sorry about this

08-05-2003, 02:15 AM	#45
DM-Naeadil	I have started working on the Beyond the Dark Portal missons. PM me asap.

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