How to tell a map is made by a noob (hance also a "what not to do" thread...)

There are several good maps out there, but there isnt too many. I mainly only care about rpg type maps, and therefore thats what i would like to see more\better done type.

What this thread should of been called is how to make more professional maps. Then it can be full of tips of how to avoid making stupid mistakes, and how to clean there map up so it is more presentable.

i'm 14 and in 5 minutes i can create terrain that beats the pants off every Bnet map i've ever played. Dont assume that just because people are 13 they cant put work into something, a good map requires time and dedication, most people arnt prepared to put that in.

"So you children of the world,
Listen to what I say
If you want a better place to live in
Spread the words today
Show the world that love is still alive
You must be brave
Or you children of today are
Children of the grave"


Go Black Sabbath! My favorite band of all time. :ggani:

I didn't mean that the average player being 13 to be a bad thing, its just a statistic. I was only stating that because it is the target audience. And based on statistics (no i dont actually have the statistics) the standards are differnt from what i would expect.

Sorry if i did accually offend anyone, i have deleted it from that post.

Im 13 and i found that pretty offensive. It sounded more like you were saying: "People's standards are kind of too high, keep in mind the average player age on Battle.Net is 13 which means we can't expect maps to hit that standard due to [insert whatever you were thnking here]." I'll stop ranting ONLY because your name and avatar are awesome :D Anywho back to the topic, I think that simple maps like legendary heroes (or Team Survival maps like Enfos even) are fun BECAUSE they're simple. Many people i know wont touch PS2 or GameCube etc. because they dont like complicated games, thye'd rather stick to the simpler games on NES or SNES etc.

Im 13 and i found that pretty offensive. It sounded more like you were saying: "People's standards are kind of too high, keep in mind the average player age on Battle.Net is 13 which means we can't expect maps to hit that standard due to [insert whatever you were thnking here]." I'll stop ranting ONLY because your name and avatar are awesome :D Anywho back to the topic, I think that simple maps like legendary heroes (or Team Survival maps like Enfos even) are fun BECAUSE they're simple. Many people i know wont touch PS2 or GameCube etc. because they dont like complicated games, thye'd rather stick to the simpler games on NES or SNES etc.

except that hes right, the average 13 year old male is more interested in blowing the crap outta things than actually using his brain to play stratagy games.

true, all the stuff is true, but i thought this forum was more like giving tips not complaining that people that make map on bnet suck, because you could do better

think about, people on bnet aren't geeks, literally "geeks" unless you want to be one. soo nobody want to spend hours and hours making a multiplayer game online for warcraft, with big map, which will be gone in a few month, becuase somebody will try to improve on this map you make. so what the heck with, i rather create a sucky map, and make it popular then taking my whole lifetime (not exactly) on making this perty map (yes pretty is spell wrong) i'm not complain, not talking back, but atleast show some pity to those fella who just want to lack off, and like post say above, 13 year old rather blow some crap up then using their brain. beside i use my brain to much on school.

that why game are make for, so you can relax and destroy thing, luagh, kill, kill, kill, kill, snipe. the best :)

beside for all those good game, there are also something call project.

now lets get back to some pointer on map improving.

I agree with weeaddar(just think he said it a little.... rough) and I was just saying about how I felt about most battle net maps. I was in no way making fun of novices. Maybe some people that are new to war 3 map creating will read this forum and find out what not to do or what to do. In fact that is most likely the reason it was created. I do come from Canada were only about 50+% of the people speak english the rest speak almost everything else, main french though. Of course we are all new to map making at once or noobs, but I know if I would have read this forum and found out what not to do and what to do I would be less noobish(dont sound right). So anyway I am saying there is a point to this topic and I think despite some negative feedback, including mine, it is a fine forum. Another note it MAY seem common sense to you but that does not me it is common sense to everyone else, alot of people here that make maps are still in ther preteens/early teens and may not have the same graspe on the world as you do(I am not discluding myself here).

i like the werewolf map

weaadar must be english, they say bloody all the time. why do you say that? my grandpa always says "bloody hell, bloody this bloody that bloody bloody bloody" no ones bleeding =/

I think every one of these mistakes should be classified as the following, rather than "n00b" mistakes:

1. Idiocy

Some mistakes are just plain idiocy, that can be fixed in a second. There's no real excuse for this. Like once I played a map that had horribly crappy triggers that can be fixed in a heartbeat, such like constantly spawning units and triggers and other triggers that are poorly done.

2. Unintentional / No knowledge of Error

Okay, these are actually mistakes and shouldn't be considered "n00b" acts. Like the green icons, some people are completely unaware that their map has errors like that, or like me, I have nobody to help test a map so I don't really get informed of these errors until I play it on Bnet, and at that point it's considered a "n00b" map by people like you guys and then bad words are spread about it, then nobody wants to play it. Or like bad trigger errors, and you have no real idea that anything's wrong.

3. Laziness

Some people are just lazy. This involves HORRIBLY spelled words, missing stuff (sometimes), horribly done triggers, and ripping off other maps just so "your" map can become popular.

4. Saving Space

Like Behemoth, some people want to save space in their map so they just leave stuff out. If he adds the icons in so they don't appear green, it increases the map size and then you people bitch that the maps are too big and hard on 56kers. Seriously, what do you want?

5. A learning newbie

Some people are just complete newbies who want some experience and want to make their own map and get feedback. You were all newbies once. Cut them some slack, they're not no-life idiots who spend all their time on sites like WC3C and spend hours working on maps. Think about THAT. They may be newbs, but at least they have lives, unlike you people.

I guarantee you, one of those can pretty much be applied to every "n00b mistake" in this topic. Besides, as weaaddar said, you were all newbies at some point. You needed to learn somehow. In the case of 5, it's just a newbie trying to learn and get feedback for his map. What the hell is wrong with that? NOBODY opens up the WC3 world editor for the first time and goes "LoL, eye no teh t3rraneing and teh JAZZ lolol!". NOBODY.

Don't jump to conclusions so fast. Take some time to THINK about why the map has some bugs.

I guess I'm a real n00b by your defination:
1/2. Idiocy/Unintentional:
First release of Dialog Test 3.8 I left out a return statement, hoping to cut on the amount of lines of code.
3. Laziness.
Almost all the code in my Dt 3.8 is illegible due to the way its written which was for the fewest lines possible. The variables are poorly named, and I use massive arrays rather then actually naming them what they should be called.
4. I cut out all the terrain and plot and well anything you'd want to do which constitue as fun on my demo maps.
5. DT 3 has had numerous amount of releases because I was learning. Though all accomplishing the same thing they all have been dramatic reductions in code length. (3.8 is most seksi in the fact that I removed nearly half of the response trigger).

If you call me a novice, and you can not create a map which does anything like my dialog test 3.8, then you sir are really an idiot.

it seems that lazyness is a big factor,

eg. Noob: woot i finished this uber 1337 gosu hero, omg i gotta make more? well... us... how about this this and this, and a little of this, ok my map is dun, omg these heros suck, well i wanna win so i'll make it so only i can get the uber 1337 hero, ahahahahaha


most people (no names) want to make uber 1337 gosu h4x0r lvl 100 heros, and dont care about gameplay, i'd rather play a well put together rpg that takes a long time and isnt like "you got here now go to oogy boogy and get the gem of asdgvbhj, and give it to the wandering blacksmith" than a massive creep fragfest

Another complainer about the 13 comment. I am 13. I learned HTML, CSS, JavaScript when I was 12 and 1/2 and PHP/ Basic Flash when 13. I hardly think this classifies as being an idiot. For further proof see the map I am working on now:
http://www.wc3campaigns.com/forums/s...threadid=36993

Hardly a mindless killfest.


On topic, bad terrian (whether not detealed enough (most maps) or too detailed (almost none (lag))), and massive killing generally mean a n00b's map. Not to mention basic edits (read: adding name to credit trigger/ quest) and/or maps that have no point (Can anyone say Warden/ Mountain giant sex cinimatic, Briney spears nude, etc) ie the maps that were once so popular on US east. Also, online inimatics in general are idiotic, but the worst is unbalances. Thnik of castle defence (damn Im adicted to that map, however mindless) where almost everyone just buys heros- units are almost useless and almost all peopl ebuy the archer.

Whoa how did I get 400 point!?!? Last tim ei checked I had 300 (not complainin):ggani:

Sorry if I start to make too much sense here but couldn't you do one or more of the following:

1) Stop playing custom maps until people that you know on battle.net tell you that there is a fun new map out.

2) Don't complain if you are still playing custom maps. Noone is forcing you to.

3) Play ladder games for a week or two and shoot up from level 4 to level 14 (what I did as I did #1)

4) Work on your own map while doing #1.

Ok. Another little comment. The first map I made was World of WarCraft. I honestly hate that map alot. It had like 15 versions and I released a version for tft just because I wanted to and someone fixed up a few of the bugs I neglected to see/fix as I hated the map so much. With my release of it for tft (on maps.warcraftiii.net only because lots of people go there to just download maps) a bunch of the comments for it were things like "omg your such a n00b mapper". However, more of the comments were "omg this map is so fun. great map man". My point is that how "n00b" a map is is all in a persons own point of view.