AMAI 2.2

Whoops, seems we forgot some debug messeges in the script then after all.

It's when a computer tries to make a island expansion, so he tried to pickup the acolytes and move them to a island. We haven't got it to work yet.

But at least your report gave a valuable clue of what might be wrong, seems they think the peon dissapeared when they pickedup it so they try to pickup another one and finaly he had picked up all of them and couldn't find any more peons.

A wish:
In AMAI Strategy Editor will be very helpful a food counter for each of the tiers. I'm not insisting, but if it is possible & isn't difficult - have this idea in view.


Suggestion:
Function PeonBuilder should be much better optimized. Now one SHREDDER compares with 4 workers, but it's wrong. In fact, One SHREDDER works as 8 peasants or peons, ~5 ghouls and ~10-11 wisps (I'm surprised too). Due to tree cut speed (and sometimes, when the forest is far, because of carry capacity, but cut speed is the main reason, indeed). You can trust these digits - I've measured them:

Budget: 4 food Time: 1 min. Conditions: equivalent (range from store to trees is minimal, range from start position to trees the same for all)

4 peasants – 202 lumber (doesn't depend on Lumber Harvesting upgrades)
4 wisps – 145 lumber
4 peons – 202 lumber
2 ghouls – 175 lumber
1 shredder – 440 lumber

But here is one more problem to deal with – computer often uses his shredder in attacks… Meanwhile, I see an easy way to solve it – add order to build SHREDDER to the every tier of every strategy.


Wish:
I want make AMAI to choose among certain strategies of my own at the very beginning of game (on one my map). But I failed it. I've tried:
- To set beginning_strat true only for these priority strategies (all other strategies get beginning_strat false). Not helps.
- To set main_stategy_tier 1 only for these priority strategies (all other strategies get main_stategy_tier 2 or 3). And I‘ve increased strategy_tier_bonus to 100 (in TFT\GlobalSettings.txt).
Both solutions not helps.
(Orc is especially remarkable; he manages to go NormalOrc strategy almost in 90% cases.)


Another wish:
To make two AMAI teammates choose different strategies at the very beginning of the game (on my map). My observations say strategy_type haven't an influence on it at all (at least at the very beginning of the game as I say).


Everything refers to version 2.01. BTW, thanks for a new release! You a brave team.

Just FYI, this was not an island map this happened on. It was Emerald Gardens again. I guess it's an interesting way for the computer to transport peons to an expansion, but in this case it caused the computer to waste an enormous amount of gold gathering time.

@FYI:

Will have to consult AIAndy on adding that to editor I don't know how hard it can be and if it's good to do so.

Will fix the shredder usage.

Why don't you just remove all other strategies and compile it?(You can extract them as backup or make backup of all the files in your AMAI dir if you want to bring them back later.

Im not sure my self how much and when the strategy type influence on the strategy choosing, but I think it do influence at start maybe not just enough compared to what enemy race and other parameters influences.

Hello , i wanted to report this problem too, until i found that you were already aware of this issue.
I noticed especially that in team game , this problem is much more important in this game mode, as you can heavily hit AMAI production by destroying several important building of all the AMAI team , without having to fear to see AMAI armies to come to the rescue of their base.

In solo , as most of the time i am under attacks , i never really noticed this, and as usually when i launch my attack on his bases these are the final attacks and AMAI is already in its base.

So , is there a progress on that issue if it is (possible to fix this of course) , and is there some chance to see it solved in AMAI 2.02 ?

I noticed that too
At first i thought i was playing versus some "selfish"-like AMAI personnalities ;) , but as this occured in other team games with other AMAI personnalities it is more likely a problem.

Thanks again for all your work, i have really great fun with AMAI , it was a long time Warcraft 3 had not been so interesting for me.

Thanks to the AMAI creators, your work has provided hours of renewed Warcraft III entertainment. My brother also found it so challenging that he avoids "Computer (Insane)" mode for AMAI (he can always beat "Computer (Insane)" using the Blizzard AI).

While most of us here has given great valuable feedback about AMAI, I have several feedback about the AMAI Developer Edition:

. Make some the windows fit in 1024x768. Example is the Strategy Editor, can we make the sizes of the memo boxes dynamic? In 1024x768, the text fields at the right side do not appear. For the meantime, I temporarily switch to a higher resolution (but lower refresh rate) to be able to see all fields.

. Do you have specs about how AMAI builds code vs UI?

. Will AMAI Developer Edition become an Open Source project in SourceForge.com, with you as the managers?

I have a n00bish Q.
Does it destroy trees using things like eat tree, and catapults and such to get through? If not is it possible?
And does it ever use a hit and run strategy to drain resources?

@FieldMedic: There is no progress on the thread issue yet since I have currently exams so there is not much time to write on the AI.

@thenonhacker: I will fix that to either make it dynamic or at least properly viewable in 1024*768.
I don't get what you mean with your second question.
As for open source project, well, AMAI is already a kind of open source project since what is in the Developers edition is all there is. If you mean for others to help in the development, then sure, there is still a lot that can be implemented which I do not have the time to put in and AMAI is modular enough for more than one person to work on the code. Just contact me.

@TheGameFreak: I tried to make the AI destroy trees when necessary, but unfortunately I did not find a way to even get the destructables since the only native that does that requires a callback and those don't work from AI.
As for hit and run strategies, that is what the harass groups I recently implemented are used for. They are not yet in that many strategies, but that is only a matter of time or just use the developers edition to make strategies use them more yourself.

Thanks AIAndy!

Rephrasing Question #2: How does the Strategy Manager creates the *.ai files?

Where can I get a reference/doc file for the available AMAI Perl functions (aside from what's in the source code)? Things like SetBuild, Threat functions, and some programming tips, etc...

Take all your time AIAndy , i understand the situation and do not want to harrass you on this issue.
I know what it is to have more important things to do in real life. I often wish to have more free time myself , but my work and my family have the priority on it.

Thanks for the time you have already spent on AMAI, it is appreciated.

@thenonhacker: There is no documentation for that yet, but here a description of the structure of AMAI.
The strategy manager modifies certain data files in the sub directories of AMAI. The most important is the build sequence stuff, which goes into BuildSequence.ai in the respective subdirectories. The rest are modifications to tables in the form of tab separated text files.
When you compile, that is not actually done by the Strategy Manager. Instead it calls ejass.pl, which is a JASS Precompiler. The final scripts are assembled by going through common.eai and races.eai and resolving the precompiler directives there. Out of common.eai common.ai is created and from races.eai the actual scripts like human.ai are created.
If you want to add additional code, that is usually done in common.eai .
A description of the precompiler directives can be found when you search for ejass in this forum.
The rest of the code in common.eai and races.eai is JASS. There are some tutorials for JASS around on this site. The API that is accessible from AI is what I put in natives.j (that are the AI natives) and most of the stuff in common.j can be used too.
Of course there are also a lot of utility functions in common.eai that I wrote.
Since there can be only 6 threads in AI and that are already used up, that is not the way to write independant code. Instead I wrote a kind of pseudo thread system that allows to execute certain code at a certain time without influencing other code. That is the job system in common.eai . If you like, I can tell you more, just ask.

Yes, it does harass and hit and runs. The Undead harass is a real pain in the arse.

Now to my points of contention.

1. 2.01 Techs far too often in the early game. Many times I catch it in a no-hero, no-melee unit hard tech to tier 2 just after night falls and rape it.

2. Randomly getting Neutral heros is crap. Many times they do not fit the strategy (Pitlord with Rain of Fire and mass Rifles is a bad strat, no front line of melee). It is far better to select a neutral hero IF it improves the strat.

3. Beastmaster is so overpowered when used by AMAI it is disgusting. That damn bird can rape Tauren, it is ugly.

4. There are alot of problems with Night Elf strats and counters. It does NOT properly counter Orc with heavy air or a strong air support. My standard Orc build rapes AMAI NE, I don't get it. When it masses hunts and gets a Faerie Dragon (I don't even have casters!) and gets a late mid-game MG it is so over. 3-4 Demolishers, 3 Tauren, 3-4 Grunts and 2-4 Wyvs (all depending on game progress) eat AMAI NE alive. The only hope for it is if it went Beastmaster, and typically he just prolongs the inevitable.

5. Found AMAI trying to reach an Island on Twisted Meadows, its Orc Berserkers and Beastmaster were behind a gold mine, twitching, to reach the Dragons. I think it had a Zep in it's base that game.

6. Mass Destroyers strat seldom works, most of the time I find mass Obsidian Statues. Since I prefer orc I typically get a Mass Destroyers counter to play with. Tauren + Docs (for the Spiders that come since I get a few Wyvs early) + Raiders + Serpent Ward (my favorite heros are TC first + SH second for anti-air/healing). Simply don't use stun wards, only put heal wards in the far rear and send units back for healing.

7. The basic problem with AMAI's counter strats is it seldom counters a counter to it's counter. :D Only seen Human and Orc do it very rarely, game must go very long.

8. There is still way to much CPU lag due to scripting. I have no idea what it is but the larger the map the more often and greater severity of occurance. Even 2v2 maps (Twisted Meadows and Lost Temple for example) have too much lag. For this reason I am forced to play on 1v1 maps almost exclusively.

9. What is up with Mercs and AMAI? It no longer uses mercs, but will send a unit to disrupt you at the Merc camp. This is really odd since many times that unit goes into it's casting animation and contributes nothing. To see this for yourself play on Glacial Thaw and hit the mercs early (near the enemy side).

I think that covers what I wanted to input. Otherwise I enjoy AMAI. :D

Oh yeah, almost forgot, Berserkers or mass HH are a bad counter vs. heavy Wyverns with a Farseer. As soon as Berserkers use Berserk, Chain Lighting rapes them. Even when AMAI gets so many Headhunters they look like a mass of ants heavy teched Wyverns, TC and Farseer own them. If no one can get the AI to properly use Bats I recommend the counter to be Raiders and Tauren. The stock AI is pretty decent with Raiders and Nets.

Hehe that was "some" feedback :)

Your right I just added the mass destroyer strategy without much testing it probably needs to be tweaked a bit, I will add a bat rider strat to be used as a good alternative to counter mass air as well for orc.

Will try to fix NE as well no idea whats wrong with them now.

And lock away more tech strategies from being used as starting strategy wil maybe make them work better.

Hmm they should use mercs still but when you mention it it was a while since I last saw them use mercs. Will take a look at it.

And yes they soemtimes tries to get islands for some odd reason.

Neutral hero selection isn't random actualy but I lack the knowlege of what hero is best to use when. Thats why I haven't made any special hero selections in many cases.

Hmm it never laggs for me didn't even lagg on my old computer (Celeron 1200) was ok to play big FFA games with 8 AMAI computers. You don't have a very fast CPU or something?

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It seemed very negative but that was due to me listing the problems I see. AMAI still blows the stock AI away by leagues, I probably should have put then in there first. :D

Yes I have an older comp, 1.2ghz and only 128meg ram, however I take that into account first. If I can play the TFT AI on Lost Temple with almost no moments of lag (typically they would come when Day/Night sounds change or in a massive battle in a base with alot of units and some sounds and likely undead towers, Coil, or other intense and sudden graphics changes), I shouldn't see a huge difference when using AMAI. I can understand moments throughout the game, but they should be rare and not every 20-30 seconds get a 2-3 second lag moment that halts my ability to do anything. Just lost a game on LT vs AI due to this so I am back to 1v1 again. I almost never have anything like it with TFT AI so I know it has to be scripting in AMAI or something similar.

I haven't seen AMAI use a merc since 1.9, I like to mess around on Glacial Thaw and it always used the Shaman from the merc camp. Now the only thing it does is send a unit to disrupt me, if even that. Haven't seen it use mercs on Twisted Meadow or any other map since I upgraded AMAI. This isn't a huge deal for me, but it was pretty cool to face mercs sometimes.

I understand the included strategies aren't necessarily top tier and when I mentioned the Neutral hero selection it was cause many times this is what loses and wins the games for AMAI. I mention it so that anyone else reading this thread who writes AI routines for AMAI will take into consideration that Hero selection is often critical. The only reason AMAI gets away with a bad combo is cause it has that nano management ability. :D It is far beyond micro.

One thing I forgot to mention was the fact AMAI will follow invisible units around. Once I sent some invis mortars to check on AMAI expansion so my AM could mass teleport to them and it's heros and units were following my invis mortar teams around. In another game it totally foiled my Blademaster Windwalk harass. I understand that the AI does not use Wards and other means to "see" invis units since it knows where all units are all the time, but in the early game this is very taboo, it totally blows Windwalk harass and is a very unfair advantage. Bad enough the AI knows all units, where they are, health and mana, at all times, but this is silly when the first night falls. Along that line if you have the time you should fix Witch Docs so they use the see invis Ward (forget name) when fighting the Human player. Otherwise Burrowed fiends get a free ride. :D While a unit is invis it is invulnerable, as I am sure you know, so even if the AI knows where the unit is it can't attack. Basically what I am saying is the see invis ward is used for more than just knowing where units are, and I like the fact you have Docs using Stun wards now, so maybe have one drop a see invis ward in every encounter with the opponent.

Phew.....I think I will leave it at that, anything else is minor enough I can cope with it. :D

I fear the problem is the RAM since AMAI uses up more memory than the standard AI and that would explain why you get that lag regularly. That would be Warcraft recycling memory often.

As for the mercs, we will have a look if there is a bug in the merc buying.

That stuff with the invisible unit is unfortunately the hard coded AI again. It does not care if it can actually attack a certain unit. That is why it sometimes even stands for a long time under a flying unit it can't attack. There is not much I can do to change that.