Your feelings on map protection?

Well, I just felt it was right... both of you brought up good points, but I just think leaving your map unprotected can bring more good than bad, I mean, if you think about it... what can happen to your unprotected map? Certainly nothing big, or something that matters.

I didn't ask Brett Wood if he thought that map protection was wrong; I asked him what Blizzard's true status on protection really is.

You're right... I'm not concerned about a technicality or a little rule that doesn't even express the true views of those who conceived it. I'm concerned about what's real, so the EULA will not bother me very much until I'm clear on it. Blizzard doesn't have to release an editor with protection on it to condone it.

Besides, I believe that you only consider Brett Wood's statements to be irrelevant because it's pretty obvious, to me at least, what he's going to say. Brett Wood is a representative of Blizzard Entertainment. If he says Blizzard condones map protection (not his own personal view), then you'll have to consider its status as such until it is corrected by another person.

I don´t think so. The EULA has some serious flaws. I am not a lawyer, but I can say this: some aspects of the eula are ILEGAL (at least here in Brazil). For an example, the EULA says I can´t copy the CD but the truth is: I can. Here the law let ppl create one backup copy of the software, for security reasons. Also, the EULA is inside the product package, wich is ILEGAL. I don´t have to obey any contract (the EULA) since I couldn´t see it BEFORE agreeing (buying the software). Finally, here a contract can´t be changed by just one of the parts: If you do want to change the original contract then both parts must agree on that, wich is not what the EULA says btw.

The real point is: They usually don´t care about what are you doing unless this means money. You can do anything with your maps, unless you charge for your "special map package". You can´t emulate Battle.net (coz this would mean profit loss) and you can´t copy CDs (proffit loss again). All other stuff they usually let people do without much trouble. Plus, as they are teaching ppl a way to protect maps, this makes any "anti-protecting policy" also ilegal. Finally, besides what blizzard says, ppl can copyrigth maps. The way I place the rivers,the florests, the triggers,... is considered my intelectual property and my intelectual property can be copyrighted. BTW, according to the US DMCA:

Some map designers say they´ve copyrighted their maps. Altough I cannot be sure if the really did so, if you circumvent the protection they´ve used you are eligible to civil remedies and criminal penalties for violating the prohibitions.. As I said above, Blizzard usually don´t care about it, unless they feel they´re losing money. And since they don´t care, I see no reason to stop using map protection.

But I keep telling you that I believe that it DOESN'T express their current views. That's my POINT. That's why I asked Brett to give a clearer response than just "We don't support it."

I would not be banned because Blizzard condones map protection. Even if the EULA says they are against it, as long as they don't enforce it then they pretty much ARE condoning it. What use is a rule if an infraction of it has no consequences? The rule is then virtually non-existent... even if it is agreed to.

EDIT: No. Map protection isn't just an exploit that was never intended to be there. If it wasn't, then why does Blizzard tell people exactly how to do it?

The EULA can be wrong. The law isn't everything.

Also, they DON'T condone pornography or harassment. If they can catch the people who commit these infractions, then they DO punish those people. However, they recognize map protection as an infraction and they do not want to do anything.

---------------

EDIT: Answer this: If Blizzard IS against map protection, why do they tell people how to do it? Essentially, they are telling people how to violate their own EULA... and I'm pretty sure that FAQ was put up AFTER the EULA was made, considering that it was the Top Ten Frequently Asked Questions. This would ALSO indicate a change in status in regards to map protection, even if their out-dated EULA forbids it.

Disclaimer? Where is it? I looked in the FAQ and didn't see one... I looked in the Map Development FAQ and didn't see one either.

No. You haven't said they condone it. You've been saying that they are probably against it. That's why I have to keep making this clear to you.

They are aiding people to violate the company's own EULA. If they don't even agree with their own EULA, then it should be considered null and void. I don't care about the technicality. Technicalities don't mean sh*t. The only use that a technicality will give you is an edge in a court of law. And, considering that no legal action will ever be taken against me or any other map protector, that's pretty useless. This is supposed to be about whether we are following Blizzard's policy. Blizzard's policy has changed, so don't give me any more crap about clicking the I Agree button because I couldn't care less unless I'm in imminent danger of getting sued or banned. Get me some REAL proof that Blizzard doesn't want me protecting maps.


EDIT: Also, I'd still like for you to tell me why they would aid people to violate their own EULA... even IF it's not an official policy thread, it doesn't make any sense. Either you missed my edit or you were just hoping to ignore that point, I don't know.

-Seems you missed my edit again, so I'll restate it:

"Also, I'd still like for you to tell me why they would aid people to violate their own EULA... even IF it's not an official policy thread, it doesn't make any sense. Either you missed my edit or you were just hoping to ignore that point, I don't know."

Next:

"To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure"
-Dictionary.com

-Yes, overlook means to ignore. However, in this instance you can't have any protest; in other words, you can't be against it. If they really were against it, they wouldn't disregard it unwillingly. You're merely describing a situation in which they are against map protection, but they just don't feel like doing anything about it. In truth, they don't mind it at all. Which is why they tell people how to do it.

-The point is that they wouldn't answer a question that poses a threat to them. Hell, why stop there? Why not just post hacking tutorials? Better yet, a list of the hottest sites to get great porno to put in your maps?

-I already told you why technicalities don't mean anything to me.

I don´t know where it is inside EULA, but I am quite sure that they say you cannot copy the game instead of you can copy the game. Also, I don´t remmeber seeing anything about refunds in case I don´t agree with the EULA, altough I may have missed it.

Yes, they trully state that you cannot copyright the maps nor sell them. But I still think I can copyright a map, the map being "stored" on a sheet of paper, a piece of wood, a piece of rock or even on a "W3M" file. It is a piece of artwork. That famous Tolkien "Middle Earth" map is copyrighted, you can´t use it without prior consent. It doesn´t mather wheter you´re using in on a sheet of paper or on war3. For an example, I can draw a map and name it my "Edge Earth" :D and copyright it.

I agree with you when you say that some protection procedures exploit failures in the MPQ format and this could be interpreted as reverse engineering. But some protections (removing the wtg file as they teach on their pages, for an example) do not mess with the MPQ structure, so where is the reverse engineering?

Finally since the WAR3 can safelly open a protected map and the WorldEditor can´t, I can say that the WE is bugged. Why the heck the game can open it and WE can´t? Coz it is bugged and they should´ve fixed that by now btw. The one that should be blammed by you not being able to open a protected map is their software, not the map designer. I would of course agree with you if the protections made the map unopenable by the game, but the real thing is: 50% of their product (the WE) is bugged and can´t open the map while the other half (the game) can. And since the game can open it you cannot say that someone is causing you prejudice by using protection. The bugged WE is causing you prejudice. When a bug is found on Windows, Microsoft usually apologize and provide ppl with patches fixing that problem. It is not my fault if half of the War3 engine works and the other half is rigged. :o

EVERYBODY STOP QOUTING ITS MAKING THIS SHIT UNREADABLE

:(

Let´s supose I´ve studied arts and I am a famous painter(talking about painting, not War3 stuff). One day I paint a map of the imaginary lands of the "BlacKD World". I copyright that map and nobody can use it without prior consent, either using it on a book, a moovie or a war3 map. I can use that map and create a War3 map of it, but if someone else uses my map either way, I could sue him/her. Blizzard would not be the owner of it as they state on the EULA. I wonder why Blizzard did not create a war3 map based of Middle Earth map. Coz they don´t own it and would have to pay. It is better develop a "Lost Temple" for an example than paying for something. If I write a book using MS WORD, that text is still mine as I am the author, even tough it being saved as a DOC file. Microsoft cannot claim ownership of it just because I used their tool to write it. Tool manufacturers cannot just claim ownership of the final product. And WE is a tool.

As for the WE glitches, I still think it is Blizzard´s fault. The game works nicely without all the garbage the WE needs. Why they just don´t use the same code? The game can read and understand Jass but the WE do not and needs the infamous wtg file. As I said, the problem is with their software, not with the protection. Protection is not causing damage anyway.

This whole discussion altough being interesting is pointless. Being legal or not, ppl use drugs. Being legal or not, ppl will use map-protection. And Blizzard just helps this out by being neutral in this whole story. The decision is up to the map designer. I like to develop tools, what the user will do with that is none of my business. And I will keep developping stuff whenever I got some free time.

No, they would not do that if they were against map protection. They don't tell people how to do ANYTHING else that they are against; if they tell people how to protect maps, then they are indirectly supporting it. They may not put it in the editor, but they are sure as hell supporting it.

Support - To aid the cause, policy, or interests of
-Dictionary.com

By telling people how to protect maps, they aid the cause of map protection.

You already admitted that you can't figure out why Blizzard would aid people to violate their EULA. I don't feel that Blizzard supports its EULA, and so I don't feel bound to it. I care about what Blizzard REALLY thinks, not what it wrote a year and a half ago in an EULA they don't seem to support anymore. As long as I follow Blizzard's true policies, I will never be chastised or banned. Period. Whether or not I'm "technically" in the wrong or the right just because of an I Agree button is irrelevant, because Blizzard doesn't mind that I do it, so quit bringing that up. I don't care. They are the ones who really decide who is wrong and who is right; not you. And, clearly from its actions Blizzard does not feel that anyone who protects maps is wrong.

Give me a GOOD reason why they would encourage EULA violation... the idea that they'd do that just to remove redundant threads is just stupid. Purely stupid.

map protection is good

...

...Didn't I JUST TELL YOU why technically they are supporting it? God! Did you just not read my post at all? Or did you just try and ignore that point and then repeat what you said before for the third time at least, hoping that noone will remember what I said? Refute it! They tell people how to protect it, so they are supporting it, even though they aren't doing it directly so. I've told you this at least twice.


1)Just because someone asks a question, it doesn't mean they are going to answer it. If map protection was a threat to their game, they would NOT tell people how to protect maps, no matter HOW frequently the question was asked. Instead, they would state in the forum rules that people are not allowed to post about map protection. God, that is the second dumbest thing you've said here.

2/3/4/5) I never said I was in the right, EULA-wise. But I do say that EULA doesn't matter if it doesn't reflect Blizzard's feelings, because it has essentially lost its purpose (Why don't you try refuting THIS instead of just repeating over and over that I'm violating the EULA?). I would only feel in the wrong if I was actually going against Blizzard's true feelings. However, I'm not, and so I will gladly continue protecting maps.


Once again, I must tell you that that is one of the most ridiculous things you have said here. They can just tell people not to talk about map protection instead... telling people how to do it when it is a THREAT to them is completely moronic. And, Blizzard is not moronic.

I think this debate has come to a stop now...

First of all, it's a fact that blizzard does not support map protection. Regardless of their actions, it's against EULA, and this IS a fact. However, they can't actually 'force' you to to obey by the EULA, but if they honestly wanted to, they could. There's alot of things in the EULA that they don't enforce, but its always important to include everything just incase (at least on blizzards side of the deal).

I don't think that this debate will get any further than this, it's basically your personal choice now. But I now believe that there's hardly a point to protect a map, the reasons given are pretty weak.

In fact I have really strong point to protect maps, the thing is we spend a lot of time and effort in trying to make a good map, that is the point of this, making a good map, and map protection was created because there were always those battle.net geniuses that modiffied maps to put their names there or to add stupid stuff that *they think* were a good idea, like a 1000 chaos attack tower for player 12 in the center of the arena or that typing "uther" will create thousands of tomes.

That is the point, we can accept to be considered selfish, and we are even going to violate the EULA because of the moronity of bnet people that are really dumb.

Also Map protectors like Heavy Locker save really good amounts of KB and that kind of forces me to use heavylocker, I don't want my map to be unplayed because of the high amounts of space it takes.

So that is it, I consider that everbody has the right to protect their maps. I could go further and say everybody must protect their maps, but I won't.

And if you are able to unprotect a map, go for it, but don't help the morons win by unprotecting maps for other people.

Those are my own points and have nothing to do with wc3c points. Next month will finish the 1st year of My map's developing, And I don't want it to get wasted by some bnet idiots.