Your feelings on map protection?

That's the only valid point for protecting maps... the fact that people might modify it for worse. I once thought this, and I'm still not completely decided, but I feel that more good can come from leaving the map unprotected. Not only can people learn from it, but they can also modify it for better. I just feel that more good can come from unprotected than protected.

Also, leaving the map unprotected does encourgage new versions, and that keeps the map alive. And really, you might think people that modify maps always modify it for worse unless its superior to your version... the truth is, people have different opinions on what they think is fun. You could release a map, and someone else could modify it. You might feel that their version isn't as good as yours, but hey, why does it matter if is in fact more enjoyed by more people?

No, alpha it is not theirs, it is a map done by other people and they come and rig it, there where way a lot of midifications to Katan's arena that was KAtan's map and none had the right to release other versions of it. You can't just say that a map becomes yours once you download it and put it in your harddrive.

Uhm, why can't you? Everything on your hard drive is your file. If you have the map on your computer, it is your file. You may not be the creator of the file, but you are one of the owners of it.

Blizzard clearly does not mind map protection. It was very popular on Starcraft. When they made Warcraft 3, they made no efforts to prevent people from doing it. They even encourage it by telling people how to do it who ask them, rather than just telling them not to ask because it would violate their own EULA. So, Blizzard clearly does not mind that map protection violates the EULA. Not just because of the FAQ, but also because they don't take any action against it. If Blizzard doesn't mind that people are violating it, why should you? It's not your place to decide who's right or wrong here. That right can only belong to Blizzard, and Blizzard never has and never will try to prevent map protection.


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EDIT:

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It is far from my last hope; the EULA is your only crutch. At least I have years of evidence showing that Blizzard doesn't mind protection and violation of the EULA. Also, link me to that Diablo FAQ please.


Like I said, if Blizzard doesn't mind violation of the EULA, you shouldn't mind. I never said it was a EULA thread OR a Blizzard Supports This Thread. Even though it is unofficial, a Blizzard employee would never help people violate the EULA unless Blizzard really felt otherwise. Otherwise, he would be fired.

Don't respond. I don't care. You're wrong, anyways.

You still don't understand that lack of support can still indicate a stance of neutrality. The fact that it is a FAQ thread is irrelevant. I already explained why. If you would like to refute that, please go ahead. You just keep stating that but you never really justify it.

There is no Diablo 2 FAQ in the Battle.net Diablo 2 forum. God, you just pulled that response out of your ass without even looking it up. Shows just how much credibility your arguement has.

I already told you why the EULA is meaningless to me. If you don't agree with that, it's your opinion. You still never really refuted my point that Blizzard's actions matter more than an outdated EULA. I will continue to protect maps despite the EULA because Blizzard doesn't care. If that makes me wrong, I don't care, because Blizzard certainly doesn't.

Wow. You responded. Lol. Didn't you say you wouldn't?

My last hope? The FAQ has only been a small part of my arguement. I push it in my points because it is my proof that Blizzard has no quiffs with map protection. You simply refuse to admit it, and would rather just badger me about it instead.

They are clearly more neutral than against, because they have never done anything against protection. They HAVE done things FOR protection, though.

There is plenty of gray area. You have to be blind not to see it. You're only thinking legally. That's why you keep preaching on about legal rights and I clicked the button and stuff. Legal action is irrelevant to me. That's just the only good point you have. Past legal circumstances, you have very little real arguement. Ironic that you say I'M clinging to something... Blizzard's actions contradict its EULA completely. That's the gray area. Don't tell me about legal rights, because I couldn't care less. Blizzard couldn't care less. If Blizzard tells me I can't play their game anymore, then I won't play it. They won't do that, though, and you know it. They condone protection; you just won't admit it. You just want to keep pushing a legal agreement that OBVIOUSLY doesn't follow Blizzard's actions because it's YOUR only hope. I'm violating the EULA. I will admit that completely, so quit whining about it. What are you going to do? Get Blizzard to ban me for protecting? Guess what? They won't do it. They condone it.

HEYHEY! Stop the flame war. Anyway I think the program is good, but it has many flaws. Namingly, there is a program around that unprotects maps.... I believe the people who created the protection program are stupid, because they have an anti-protection for it....

So whats the point of it, I mean it's a good program but people just hack right in.

I didn't read most of this thread, but I"d like to state my opinion.

I protect maps because, I am the sole creator of it, by saying map protection is bad is being iggnorant, you KNOW theirs people out their that will edit the map, and do something like change a name, add cheats, ect.

I don't want people to be confused about my map, and not be sure who created which version, I want my map too be the only one of its kind, when I release a new version people know it won't be crappy, new version with cheats.

I understand that you want to learn from maps, by why not ask the author? I help friends and some people in Clan MaP Channel all the time. I LIKE helping this people, I do NOT however want people hacking into my map too change some petty thing.

It should be the modder's decision to close, or open-source their map. They tell how in their FAQ, which obviously prooves they dont mind it. If 70% of members say "What is (staff member)'s credit card number?" would they post it in their FAQ? No. By your logic you've posted, aplha, a map has around the same rights, so its nothing "special". Deleting the GUI files and stuff is a form of modding itself. You are moderating a map file, without anything malicious. If your argument is for allowing it at wc3c, you're wrong. There was already a (rather short) thread in the staff forum on this topic, which concluded wc3c is anti-unprotection. Thinking beyond the EULA, say you made a blueprint for the world's most fuel-efficient jet or something. You put it in a safe, and boeing or some company breaks into your safe and literally only erases your name and putd theirs. Well, that sucks for you, you were just cheated of your hard work. A map can range from one week to a year + of work, so its utter bullshit that people can edit it and give themselves any credit unless its so severe, you would never guess it was a ripoff. I dont mind editing a map if:

1- The author is asked, and the author lets the person edit it
2- The person gives good credit (the real maker being the big name, or both names, not:

A good map
By Ubernoob123

well this map is an example
oh yeah, leetmapper99 made this, I just gave the frost wyrm more damage.

and done bother saying my example is a bad example. Most map edits are like this

3- The editor SHOWS the map to the maker.

Sure the enfos version was better, but last I checked, the makers of Enfo were pissed because not only did he steal their map, and take credit, but the editor didn't protect it the first few times he hosted it, so now virtually anyone can edit enfo (and they have. Most dont even work. pathetic.)

Try disagreeing with my point. Good luck. I'll email blizzard about this, I've got nothing to loose... I was on the "one-month-ladderpla-banned" list, and notified of that, but its been around 5 or so since I was banned, so they cant do shizot to me :>

Wow. That had hardly anything to do with what I said considering that I already agreed with you that they don't directly support it. Past that one comment, you ignored my entire post. Mind telling me what points I'VE ignored? Don't tell me about the support crap because I've told you at least 10 times why that doesn't mean anything. I'm tired of you MAKING ME repeat myself.

I keep having to re-state my points to you over and over because you DON'T refute them. Sometimes you just try to change the subject, ignore them, or just offer a completely stupid explanation, such as the idea that they encourage people to violate their EULA JUST to reduce redundant questions (LOL!!! And, I've already told you why it's irrelevant that its a FAQ). You've hardly refuted anything. Have you LOOKED at the last 5 pages? You've pushed the exact same arguement from the very beginning. Over. And over.

Give a decent refutation, and I won't keep bringing it up.'


We both know that Blizzard is not really against map protection. You think I'm a selfish, paranoid, control freak who does not deserve to play the game; if Blizzard is so dead-set against protection like you seem to be so sure of, then why don't you tell them to ban me? And every other protector? You don't even have to tell them to ban PLAYERS, just ban the third-party applications that are so illegal. After all, if you're right about everything, that should work. EULA is not what it all comes down to. Unless Blizzard actually enforces it, the EULA has no effect. The vital part of a legal agreement is consequence. Without consequence, it's just an empty threat. Blizzard isn't against map protection if it doesn't do anything that's against it. You seem to be so sure of yourself about winning this arguement. Good luck :)

Your points just aren't any good. Right here is a good example how you ignore my points. You weren't able to respond to the rest of my last post, so you just addressed one point and hoped that I'd only respond to that one and we'd allll forget what I said earlier. Lol. And you act like you're winning this arguement so easily. You don't even know what to say :)

EDIT:

Your only real strategy in this arguement is ignoring my points. As I look back over our posts, you consistently direct the focus of the arguement away from things that you don't have any good answers for... I didn't notice this before, but I do now. You'd better start addressing every single word of my posts, or I'm just going to keep pointing it out and I'm going to keep repeating those points.

I read the EULA and the only thing it says about world editor made stuff is that you can't sell them, it doesn't say anything about protection / sublicensing.

what is this? a panto?
"Oh yes they do!"
"Oh no they don't!"
"Oh yes they do!"
"Oh no they don't!"
gah, i thought it said they dident support the editor officially, or any custom maps, therefore all this do dont rubish is just wearing out keyboards. did you ever think of your keyboard?

personally i think rigging maps is something sad people who like to watch soaps and hire prozies do. stealing maps is just what stupid people who have no skill do. but who cares what these poor sad people do? there just cyber terrorist who like to stir up things like this arguement. geez everybody here likes wc3, are we trying for civil war? please...

maybe somebody should make a list of maps and there original creators and release date, i've started work on a simple one to record me and my mates maps. after this how could stealing happen?

i also have a way to solve the whole editing thing, but i doubt its even possible so i wont even bother explaining it.

as far as i see it protecting maps is just wrong, its not protecting at all, its just denying access to how the map works. if somebody wants to have rigged maps then they can just make their own, or ask for an unprotected verion, if they want to steal the map, let them try, people will know it was stolen and instead of being known for making a good map they'll be known as a theif.

besides, this is a game, why do you make maps, so people can have fun playing them? or so you can can grab some fame? if you picked the fun one then what does the name matter. anyway, i dont remember the name of the maker of any of the things i play ^_^

ok, shutting up now.

(NOTE: I am mad, clinacally insane, loony. dont listen to me. my opinion counts for nothing.)

EDIT: on the topic of all this do dont stuff blizzard do appear to be against protection, however this is only as a company as is not enforced. any one employee of blizzard has there own view. enforing against protection would be a bad move for them, 50% or so of people use it, so its too much of a risk.

Yes we make maps so people can have fun with them, but when someone rigs the map or adds something stupid, that ruins the map and it is no longer fun.

Map protection is a waste of time. Not only do I release all of my maps as unprotected, but I also unprotect and rerelease any map I find to be protected that I've played on bnet.

Simple as that.

Edit: I've also made an application called CRTRebuilder for MacOSX 10.3 in cocoa that will unprotect the map for you, and a few members in my clan have it, and use it to do the same thing.

Don't protect your map, it's lame.
Eventually I'll play it on bnet, unprotect it, and you'll realize you've wasted your time trying to protect it.