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AMAI 2.2

04-16-2004, 08:02 PM#76
Zalamander
I mostly had that odd ability that creates a new building in mind, no idea how the AI will use it, but I guess it's not problem anyway.
04-17-2004, 12:58 PM#77
AIAndy
Since Andy Bond said that the AI will use the skills, I am sure that there will be no problem with the tinker. It is easy enough to put him in AMAI.
04-19-2004, 11:21 PM#78
Shmooz
Issue with 2.015beta:

I am getting lag (extra CPU usage) on even small maps like glacial thaw, the entire game. It is brief but constantly throughout the games, this effect I didn't have unless I was on larger maps when using 2.0 and prior version. Was something else changed in this version other than strategies and adding the Tinker as a hero choice?

Nice job on adding usage for the NE staff (of preservation?). Caught me off guard. Do heros #2 and #3 also buy them or just the first? Might be cool and annoying if there was a random chance they would.

Haven't had the AI use the Tinker yet. Could you mention what race/strat he is typically selected for?
04-20-2004, 08:18 AM#79
Zalamander
The thinker is used equaliy much with any race and any strategy it got a bit higher chanse to get picked than the other neutral heroes.(most other neutral heroes got priority 7 to be picked thinker got priority 10)

Can't exactly remember all changes but nothing that should effect CPU use is changed.

They buy scroll of protection now I think it was not used earlier, and NE and Human buy the staff in the own shop to save units, however it's not working perfect yet.
Some missspelling in chat taunts was fixed.

And a bug in the ommander, build tower order only worked for NE computers, work for all now.
04-20-2004, 09:54 PM#80
Shmooz
I have played about 25 games with AMAI 2.015 on Glacial Thaw, the AI hasn't used the Tinker once. It seems the chance to use Naga and Beastmaster are far greater than any other neutral hero. I have seen usage of the other neutrals, with Pitlord coming in just behind Beastmaster and Naga for usage, but no Tinker.
04-21-2004, 10:34 AM#81
Zalamander
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmooz
I have played about 25 games with AMAI 2.015 on Glacial Thaw, the AI hasn't used the Tinker once. It seems the chance to use Naga and Beastmaster are far greater than any other neutral hero. I have seen usage of the other neutrals, with Pitlord coming in just behind Beastmaster and Naga for usage, but no Tinker.

hmm odd I'll look that up now to see if maybe wrong file was used for the final compile.

Update:
Nope nothing wrong, the version at the site is the same as I use at home and see them use the thinker many times.
Beastmaster got extra priority for some race.
04-21-2004, 04:22 PM#82
Shmooz
Played just over 30 games (at least) and Tinker finally showed up in game 27. I guess I just had a different amount of randomness. :D
04-22-2004, 07:18 AM#83
MurphGuitar
I just played 1v2 on my altered Emerald Gardens map and each AMAI 2.015 team used a Tinker.

I'm sure I have a lot of nerve asking already, but any ideas how AMAI 2.015 will work with the new Beta 401 patch released tonight? Of course A&Z won't release an AMAI version for each Beta patch...right?
04-22-2004, 08:07 AM#84
Zalamander
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurphGuitar
I just played 1v2 on my altered Emerald Gardens map and each AMAI 2.015 team used a Tinker.

I'm sure I have a lot of nerve asking already, but any ideas how AMAI 2.015 will work with the new Beta 401 patch released tonight? Of course A&Z won't release an AMAI version for each Beta patch...right?

It will be no problems at all unless there is changes in techtrees, item prices or merc/item available/restock times.
But we have made more improvements tp performance in the AI lateley and added some new features so we might release a new version soon anyway.
04-22-2004, 12:29 PM#85
Spumpk1
I have a suggestion. Whenever you attack a human computer's base, they turn all of their peasants into militia no matter how large of a force I send in. Also, they like to send in peasant reinforcements from outside expansions. Is there any way you can make them not send in expansion peasants? Also, is there a way you can set an aggression limit or something so that they don't always turn their peasants into militia? This is usually bad on their economy because they all stop mining gold/chopping lumber and usually they have to rebuild lost peasants.
04-22-2004, 03:17 PM#86
Zalamander
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spumpk1
I have a suggestion. Whenever you attack a human computer's base, they turn all of their peasants into militia no matter how large of a force I send in. Also, they like to send in peasant reinforcements from outside expansions. Is there any way you can make them not send in expansion peasants? Also, is there a way you can set an aggression limit or something so that they don't always turn their peasants into militia? This is usually bad on their economy because they all stop mining gold/chopping lumber and usually they have to rebuild lost peasants.

This is currently hard coded, we have no control of the human militia usage when they are defending the base, but we might try to fix it later to prevent people frm harassing human to death.
04-22-2004, 05:44 PM#87
Spumpk1
Man these forums load SLOWLY. Well, since I've given one suggestion and was shut down like me asking a girl on a date... might as well give a few more. I'll try to organize it in a slightly coherant way.

Orc
Strategy - Why isn't there any 'normal' build order? Currently the 'normal build' i think is Grunts & Casters. Change please :) I feel there should be because the orc AI likes to use the Shaman/Wyverns too much, so this strategy should help improve their odds of having a better early game.
Blademaster - Most human players use Wind Walk as a main skill, any way this can be used effectively by the AI? Or is it hard coded to only use it when fleeing.
Shadow Hunter - All 3 variations have the same skill choices (Healing/Serpent/Healing/Serpent...) Why not use Hex or Wards first? This plus the fact that they waste mana on Healing Wave like none other.

Night Elf
Warden - Skill choices, all 3 involve maxing Fan of Knives. Why not Shadow Strike first?
Ancient Protectors - Do they ever build them? If so, 1 or maybe 2 for expansion defense would be nice.

Human
Blood Mage - Skill choices, all 3 involve Flame Strike/Siphon Mana. Banish saved for last. Why not use Banish earlier. It's a good special when used in conjunction with a Mountain King.

Undead
Crypt Lord - Skill choices again. Carrion beatles first? Good in conjunction with Fiends.
Strategy - Gargs & Ghouls... good strat. Kinda like Mutas & Zerglings in Stracraft.
Spirit Towers - Do they build them? Once again base defense OR expansion defenses would be nice.

Neutral
Naga Sea Witch - A popular strategy with her is Frost Arrows/Forked Lightning.
Beastmaster - Quillbeasts as a first choice might add some variety. (Quill/Bear/Quill/Bear/Quill)
Pandaren Brewmaster - Why never brawler in the first few skills? Maybe something like Haze/Brawler/Brawler/BoF/Brawler/Ultimate/BoF/BoF/Haze/Haze
Goblin Tinker - Currently you have Rockets/Factory twice. Change one of em to Factory/Upgrade/Factory/Upgrade.

Interesting to note that most of my skill changes are for the expansion pack heroes. Anyways, keep up the good work. I enjoy AMAI a lot.
04-22-2004, 10:28 PM#88
Zalamander
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spumpk1
Man these forums load SLOWLY. Well, since I've given one suggestion and was shut down like me asking a girl on a date... might as well give a few more. I'll try to organize it in a slightly coherant way.

Orc
Strategy - Why isn't there any 'normal' build order? Currently the 'normal build' i think is Grunts & Casters. Change please :) I feel there should be because the orc AI likes to use the Shaman/Wyverns too much, so this strategy should help improve their odds of having a better early game.
Blademaster - Most human players use Wind Walk as a main skill, any way this can be used effectively by the AI? Or is it hard coded to only use it when fleeing.
Shadow Hunter - All 3 variations have the same skill choices (Healing/Serpent/Healing/Serpent...) Why not use Hex or Wards first? This plus the fact that they waste mana on Healing Wave like none other.

Night Elf
Warden - Skill choices, all 3 involve maxing Fan of Knives. Why not Shadow Strike first?
Ancient Protectors - Do they ever build them? If so, 1 or maybe 2 for expansion defense would be nice.

Human
Blood Mage - Skill choices, all 3 involve Flame Strike/Siphon Mana. Banish saved for last. Why not use Banish earlier. It's a good special when used in conjunction with a Mountain King.

Undead
Crypt Lord - Skill choices again. Carrion beatles first? Good in conjunction with Fiends.
Strategy - Gargs & Ghouls... good strat. Kinda like Mutas & Zerglings in Stracraft.
Spirit Towers - Do they build them? Once again base defense OR expansion defenses would be nice.

Neutral
Naga Sea Witch - A popular strategy with her is Frost Arrows/Forked Lightning.
Beastmaster - Quillbeasts as a first choice might add some variety. (Quill/Bear/Quill/Bear/Quill)
Pandaren Brewmaster - Why never brawler in the first few skills? Maybe something like Haze/Brawler/Brawler/BoF/Brawler/Ultimate/BoF/BoF/Haze/Haze
Goblin Tinker - Currently you have Rockets/Factory twice. Change one of em to Factory/Upgrade/Factory/Upgrade.

Interesting to note that most of my skill changes are for the expansion pack heroes. Anyways, keep up the good work. I enjoy AMAI a lot.

Firstly I think I did answere you last time you asked why there was no normal strategy for Orc if it was you asking here, but I can answere again.
The whole point with AMAI is that it is making up it's own strategies by mixing different strategies, it is always playing a kind of all raound that fit best against what the enemy has. I only wonder why you want them to have a normal strategy? you never tell me that.

Well the other things about how they use skills are all hard coded, and nothing we control with AMAI, the only thing we control is the skill order yes , I tried to make them use the skills they are best at using most of time but some changes is needed there, but computers can't play like humans at all with the single unit targeting spells like banish and hex, they only waste the mana by targeting random enemy units. Wind walk is alos only used for fleeing by blademaster yes.

But we will still keep trying to improve anything there is to improve. just wait and see. :)
04-23-2004, 04:20 AM#89
Spumpk1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalamander
Firstly I think I did answere you last time you asked why there was no normal strategy for Orc if it was you asking here, but I can answere again.
The whole point with AMAI is that it is making up it's own strategies by mixing different strategies, it is always playing a kind of all raound that fit best against what the enemy has. I only wonder why you want them to have a normal strategy? you never tell me that.

Well the other things about how they use skills are all hard coded, and nothing we control with AMAI, the only thing we control is the skill order yes , I tried to make them use the skills they are best at using most of time but some changes is needed there, but computers can't play like humans at all with the single unit targeting spells like banish and hex, they only waste the mana by targeting random enemy units. Wind walk is alos only used for fleeing by blademaster yes.

But we will still keep trying to improve anything there is to improve. just wait and see. :)

My reasons for giving Orc a normal strategy:
1) Every other race does. Why not be uniform?
2) Just to see how much AMAI smokes Blizzard's AI.
3) Better odds for having a good starting strategy since Shamans + Wyverns is used too much. I guess you can lower the frequency of that, though. The bad thing about Shamans + Wyverns is that they tech extremely early. Because of this all they have for base defense is burrows and 1 hero (which they don't creep with). Maybe have this strategy chosen as a later game strategy as a counter too mass melee?
04-23-2004, 05:43 AM#90
Tez
Something about AMAI's strategies. Check screenshot.
Pay attention to unit balance (not to formation). I've increased strategy change time for my epic size map (by ~30%). Can it be the reason?