Your feelings on map protection?

Stop the f*cking flame war.

If we are not allowed to sublicense NEW MATERIALS... then it is illegal to distribute maps at all. In fact, this site would be in violation of that EULA, as the owners are providing a method of distribution.


"he Program also contains a 'World Editor' (the "Editor") that allows you to create custom levels or other materials for your personal use in connection with the Program ("New Materials"). All use of the Editor or any New Materials is subject to this License Agreement. "
No sublicense there.

"3. Responsibilities of End User ...
(iii) use or allow third parties to use the Editor and the New Materials created thereby for commercial purposes including, but not limited to, distribution of New Materials on a stand-alone basis or packaged with other software or hardware through any and all distribution channels, including, but not limited to, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution without the express written consent of Blizzard;"

No sublicense there.

"4. Program Transfer. You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this License Agreement, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this License Agreement and you agree to remove the Program and any New Materials from your home, business, or portable computer."

Nope.

"5. Termination. This License Agreement is effective until terminated. You may terminate the License Agreement at any time by destroying the Program and any New Materials. Blizzard may, at its discretion, terminate this License Agreement in the event that you fail to comply with the terms and conditions contained herein. In such event, you must immediately destroy the Program and any New Materials."


As far as I can tell, sublicensing only applies to the programming and data used by the world editor. The actual output, while restricted by the license, is actually owned by you insofar as triggers, models, skins, etc.

Oh, and Blizzard owns the MPQ standard, and they can control production of the map. Hell, they can do just about anything to a map. But, they choose not to. It is possible to unprotect maps, for example. They can still choose to make it impossible to distribute a map through battle.net, or they could choose to change the map. But that would not be within their rights. It is not the world editor you are editing, it is the "New Materials", these New Materials are yours...

Think of it like Photoshop. The World Editor is a powerful program capable of creating many types of files and formats. Many of which are proprietary. And many of the effects in Photoshop are proprietary. But when you buy the right to use Photoshop, you aren't buying the right to find out how they work. You are buying the right to use Photoshop and create anything you want. The product is yours. It is your property. No matter what proprietary format you save it in, no matter how many copyrighted graphics manipulation techniques you use... It is yours.

The same applies to the World Editor.

It is simply illegal to manipulate, sell, or gain profit from the World Editor, or New Materials of it

It is illegal to sublicense the World Editor
It does not even mention sublicensing the New Materials.

Final point:

"A. Subject to the Grant of License hereinabove, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, sublicense, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, create a source code equivalent, create derivative works based on the Program, or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Program, or allow others to do so, without the prior consent, in writing, of Blizzard."

Not the New Materials. New Materials are not the Program. Get it through your head, Alpha. You are smart, you are just stubborn!

You've hardly shot down anything. You never gave a good answer why Blizzard encourages EULA violation. You just pulled a completely idiotic answer out of your ass. You even mentioned a Diablo 2 FAQ that doesn't exist. IN YOUR OPINION, that might be a good answer, but I doubt that anyone else believes so. It is my evidence that Blizzard condones map protection and that it doesn't support EULA that completely undermines your sermons about legal technicalities. Don't tell me about the EULA until you give a DECENT explanation why they support EULA violation. I already shot down your point about it just being a FAQ. Find a different answer.

I dont have to show fresh material if you just ignore the material that you don't have an answer for. It's not like you've ever brought anything new to the table this entire time. You simply threaten to not deal with me because you know Blizzard isn't against map protection. Quit making excuses for it :)

Please address the points that you've ignored.

LOL!! and you STILL can't tell me what points I've ignored! You wanted to change the focus of the arguement, so you made up an accusation I was ignoring your points. Then, I ask you what points I'm ignoring 2 or 3 times, and you ignore THAT! Do you have any idea how stupid this makes you look? It gives even LESS credibility to your arguement than you already have. You already lost more when you made up a Diablo 2 FAQ to use as evidence. You are so unbelievably full of crap.

Maegus, at this point, you are simply detracting from the argument. Insults are not neccessary. As you can see, I took a completely different approach.

He was winning the argument on the grounds that the EULA was against protection of files. In reality, it neither mentions protection, nor "New Materials" in any similar way. He won because he was able to say "The EULA says this, the EULA says that" and you never fact-checked him. In reality, New Materials are like works of art done with brand name, high quality paints and paint brushes. It does not mean the painting is owned by the manufacturer of the tools you used, merely the right to produce those manufactured goods. When you buy them, you are not saying that everything you paint with them is theirs... merely, that you should not deconstruct them for personal gain. That is how it is with the World Editor and New Materials.

He's insulted me over the course of the arguement as well.

I'm sorry if I'm making a personal attack, but he deserves it for consistently just making things up to throw at me! Its RIDICULOUS!

I already told him why the EULA doesn't matter if Blizzard doesn't support it, though. I don't care what he says about the EULA. He never brings anything new to the table, he just says "The EULA said so" to everything. He's clinging to his crutch. He's too stubborn and close-minded to concede any point that refutes it, no matter how good that point is.

Yay, from saying something late at night to saying something in the morning, after staying up late at night.
But to the point.

[The following is to Alpha]

Show me proof, absolute proof, quoting and all, that it SPECIFICALLY says that editing a map is illegal.
Protection is editing a map.
It's corrupting it for editing usages, but it's still editing the map.
And if they didn't want us editing maps in the first place, this discussion wouldn't exist, because we'd only be able to save maps, and therefore only be able to make simple, and stupid maps. And even if they allowed us to edit our own maps only, then they'd be practically FOR protecting maps, because they're protecting every map that gets saved as a playable map.
Also, I fail to find why you'd never wish to ask the author of a map permission to EDIT their map, or even look at it. If there was no e-mail providing contact, or a website, or anything, then I'd understand.
But if sending an e-mail, and waiting a day, sometimes even less, all for, not just a game, but a sub creation of a game, then I think you need to stop playinig Warcraft 3.
Also, one last thing, stop listening to specific parts that you want to see, and ignoring the rest.
I've noticed half this topic was Maegus saying a pretty good point to you, and you not ignoring it, but rather, twisting it around to serve your arguement, which is pretty petty, and doesn't really serve as an arguement, since you're forgetting the key ideas he's trying to point out.
Ironically, because of that, you two have been saying the same thing over and over again.
And for the first few pages, you've actually managed to keep saying that Maegus didn't know that Blizzard doesn't support protection!
And also, guess what! Blizzard doesn't support the World Editor either!

Also, to everyone else, I appologize for personally attacking somebody, but I'm only stating what I've seen.
And if you find map protection to be unethical because you can't learn from it, then I suppose you can find map protection to also be good, so that a n00b can't rig it, and make everyone hate the map, or something.
Also, don't you dare say I'm entirly for map protection; I've made a(n unreleased) map, that's entirly unprotected, but only because of it's simplicity. If someone rigs it, I don't care, because it's just not the kind of map you'd play if it was rigged.
But an RPG, you never know if a railroaded (or even open) RPG is rigged, because it could've been a well thought out plan that the septer of mana can create gold using alchemy, or perhaps "Zagu" isn't a cheat word, but rather a magic word! Therefore, I'll protect any further RPGs I make, and hope you at least play the whole thing before trying to unprotect it.
Also, if you steal the map, I believe I CAN sue you, because the storyline in the RPG is mine, regardless of what Blizzard says or does.

So there's my oppinion on map protection, and Alpha's personality.

Wow. Good job. You just did it again. You've walked straight into my point and done what I've been saying you've done all along. You ignored my entire post, and blatantly showed everyone how you slither around something you can't answer to. Thank you. Now, unless you want to address what actually MATTERS, keep quiet. It's quite obvious that you're merely being stubborn.

It is so ironic that you pointed that link at me... I almost laughed. Throughout this arguement, I have conceded points to you; I agreed that I was violating the EULA, and that the EULA disagreed with protection.

You, however, have never budged an inch. Rather than concede even a word, you'd rather ignore what people say and change the subject. Don't try to tell me you haven't made any personal attacks in this argument. You want a Ferrous Cranus? Look in the mirror.

So, this is your last statement? Just another excuse to ignore my points, if you ask me. I don't really care if you ever post in this thread again; it's not like you have anything decent to say. There's just no point in arguing with you if you don't address my points.

You're actually that stupid?!
I didn't believe you were THAT stupid, but you are.
You never said proof, you probably didn't even read my entire post.
I asked for proof, you said no proof.
If you don't supply proof for your arguements, then either give up, or get the **** out.
And finally, don't you DARE say that I can't stop people from editing it, because I found so many faults in that arguement, that it'll take me a while to list them all, but UNLIKE you, I will.

1. If I don't want people to get it in the first place, then that's my choice, and therefore, I choose how they recieve the file.
2. Since you believe everyone should be able to edit the map, why can't I edit my own map, when everyone else can?
3. Technically, protecting is editing. If it's an actual bug, then Blizzard has yet to fix it, and has had plenty of time to fix it, considering an actual FAQ member has explained how it's done. And since you think that anyone should be able to edit a map, I think that I should be able to edit it in a corruptive way, which may directly or indirectly cause the World Editor to stop working on it. (And if you respond with "Well, they don't support the World Editor, so they wouldn't fix it.", then you're an idiot, because I'm about to counter THAT one.)
4. Although Blizzard does not support the World Editor directly, I'm 99% sure that they'd fix bugs for it, if found and abused quite often. Direct support does not mean they'll fix it, directly supporting something only means they'll only answer questions as though it were any other part of the game.
5. Finally, if you do not address and counter all my points here, you have no position to argue, because if you haven't noticed, your arguements are thin, weak, overused, and worthless. We already know everything you've said, and except for the part about Blizzard being, or ever being against protecting maps, I'm sure almost everyone in this discussion agrees with your points. However, despite this fact, you decide that everyone else is wrong, and they don't see your points, even though they do. And I'm going to ignore you if you don't fully respond to EVERYTHING I say, because you've been acting like an immature adult in this arguement.

Lol! Now you know how I feel! He just ignores you and says the same things over and over until he frustrates the hell out of you.


Alpha, if you can't bring anything new to the table, why should he? If the old points had actually been resolved, then maybe something new would be necessary. But you give poor overused answers to a few points, ignore the rest, and then claim that you totally thrashed the opposition, so that will never happen. Of course, its not like you can respond to this post without being a hypocrite.

Why don't you? God, you're such a hypocrite. You even proved it talking to me again when you said you wouldn't.

You shouldn't expect everyone to constantly come up with new points when you just ignore them and use the same arguement you've had from the beginning.

Any more posts you give in reply to me only prove even more that you're a hypocrite.

You've insulted me in this arguement before, and you'd have to be a complete idiot (Yes, you heard me. Cry me a river. Go whine to someone else.) to think that the only things I've said in this thread were insults and flames.

If you don't want everyone calling you an idiot, then don't act like one. Don't make up evidence, don't blatantly ignore what people say, don't say things that only an idiot would say. (Asking for new points when you don't even have any...) You simply refuse to listen. You act like a 6-year-old, putting your hands over yours ears and screaming, "LA LA LA I DON'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA!"

Erm, have you really contributed anything?
I don't recall you ever saying anything original.
And also, I did read the entire threat, minus the fifth page. I guessed that you'd just carry the same arguement that you did every page before that, and I was probably right.
And finally, you still have yet to supply proof. Please show me absolute proof of Blizzard saying that they don't want people protecting maps they made.
And also, just because I can't copyright the map itself, that doesn't mean I can't copyright the terrain, the storyline, and perhaps even any custom art used in the map.
And with all those copyrighted, if there's still a game somewhere, then I won't protect it. However, if not, I'll protect it, and I'll simply put my E-mail address, so you can quite easily contact me for questions.
And finally, I CAN choose how to distribute it. If I want, I can put it on a website, or I can host it on Battle.net, or I can not distribute it at all, and play it with a few friends. And I'm pretty sure you can USE WORLD EDITOR to PROTECT A MAP, if you know how! It's a VERY open editing program, the most customisable one I've seen that's still a part of a game.
And finally, you're a hypocritical idiot. Or did I say that before? And if you don't think you are a hypocritical idiot, look what I just quoted!
All you've been doing is repeating the same fact, that everyone accepts to be true, then saying that everyone's an idiot.
So don't say you've been contributing in the slightest way.
And feel free to say I haven't been contributing either, because it'll be as though you're agreeing with me about how stupid you are.

So, to sum this up for you to reply to:

1. Provide proof that map protection is illegal, and that Blizzard does not want it.

2. Attempt to counter about me copyrighting maps to the point where, the only uncopyrighted parts are useless without the copyrighted parts.

3. Just say I'm not contributing either, go on, say it.

There, I provided a nice guideline for you to answer to.
Have a perfectly miserable day for ruining my time.

Welp, I've got to leave for the weekend, so please e-mail me the reply, or PM me it, or something like that. Whatever works.

What the crap is this... the past few pages have been nothing but people throwing different questions regarding map protection alpha's face, but the problem is, they are lead to the same answer. It's no wonder why he just repeats himself so often.

Every question seems to go something like: "Why can't I protect my map? It's MY map!"... when it's technically not, but basically, every question states something that is just untrue, and the people writing it expect to get a new responce... everyone just seems to try to dismiss the EULA as being worthless, and there's no reason to listen to it.. If that's the case, then what's the point of argueing? If you're just going to compeltely ignore the facts, and just try to push opinions, then there's no point in going on.

That said, the only thing happening in this forum now is just flame after flame, people asking the same questions over and over, and getting the same answer over and over. I'm pretty sure alpha proved through quotes from the EULA that you can't legally protect your map... and if you want to ignore that, then go ahead... but if you choose to ignore it, then don't argue.

Edit: Typos

i got a map protection program any one wans it too bad unless u do some thing 4 me