Suggestions and Ideas here

Also I think that if it is possible you should edit the hero abilities some to add variety.

- Here is a suggestion... when borrowing ideas from other games/storylines that have nothing to do with what you are doing... the absolute #1 assumed rule is:

- Do *NOT* take names straight out of something if they refer to a place or person.

Because if your mod has nothing to do with warhammer, you should not have units that are named after places/people. But you have done this with the Greater( Do you have a lesser?) Demon of Khorne. If you were trying to emphasize that this mod is not a warhammer mod, you would not use important place/people/important ideas from it. That is like me adding a new Hero to Undead called "Diablo"... Or adding a new Human hero called "Merlin" or Elven Hero named "Legolas" or creating a unit called "Defender of Tristram" and not having your map related to diablo at all..

This is my opinion, no offence was meant and I posted this with the intentions of helping your mod be the best it can be. Whether you take this advice or not is up to you. goodday sirs.

PS: Any ETA on 3.2? I havent checked much but it looks good, and I really want to try it out.. I hope you added some cool things in and I am glad to hear you redid the tech tree. Later!

Fiery_Maelstrom :D
[email protected]

The only race I use is Chaos (being that I love UNDEAD and don't bother to play with any other races on the others).

From what I noticed, there are some MAJOR balance issues.

1> The little Snotlings are ridiculous in the amount of gold they manage to aquire from attacking

2> The Lizardmen summoning 12 poison elementals is straight ridiculous and is probably the biggest issue of all. The fact that they do sooo much damage, and can only be heart by certain attacks makes them pretty unreasonable by all means, especially with them having 1,100 hit points. That is over 12,000 hit points that you have to kill with special units while receiving over 1,000 damage from them combined. The Chaos hero only makes 2 elemental things which was not bad at all, and they are easily killed. If anything, being that the Lizardmen have the best defense and that their special unit is so hard to kill anyways because of his defense, (which is good that he has little HP) he should by no means be able to make 12 of those bastards. I can see 4 at the MAX. Me and my cousin played a damn good game and I was busting his behind then I let him catch up and we stayed even, until he did that 12 summoning thing of the poison creatures. That let him nuke EVERY base I had on the map with ease because they took forever to unsummon, and the minute they did, he was able to make them again. We played the map damn near 5 hours, because I kept making new bases and establishing armies in no time. My other cousin who was watching said he though he was doing that, I managed to play well enough to stay even, but there was no possible way for me to win as long as he kept making those, which is extremely lame. The only thing that kept me alive was the fact that we were playing on a 12 player map, and the map size should never be an aspect on the balance of a fight.

3> the Chaos race should have a +1 or +2 upgrade addition to their MAX Armor. Late in the game their armor is the worse it seems.

4> The Fire Keeper should have a visible attack. I only use them to knock down trees and clear passages rather quickly, but I do rather like the idea of them not being able to attack close range.

5> If a unit is set to follow another unit, it should not be followed any longer after it gets out of the followers sight range. I was able to set an IMP from my main base to an enemy unit I was fighting in battle on the other side of the map, and it followed him from WAY across the world and led me to his expansion.

6> There should be WAY more ranged units and air units in the game. He made a few air creatures and it allowed him to attack my armies very easily with nothing I could do about it, except lure him to towers, etc. Imps should also heal for more per second.

7> Many buildings once destroyed do not disappear

8> Scaling of buildings before being built is awful on some buildings, such as the Hell Gate. It is giant and then when built, it is small, which makes you sometimes place it in improper places, also some build spaces are too big for preview, and when built you can actually pass through where it looked you wouldn't have been able to do so.

9> Inferno is awfully big. Not a problem, but wouldn't mind actually being able to see the top of it better, lol. It's that big, for what to come from it???

10> I gotta go, but I'll be back with more. Hopefully I can get the 3.2 beta and play with 3 other people, all with different races, me being Chaos, and we comment and write down Imbalances we find in the game. Ex: a special 4 man Beta Testing Team. ((There can be others, i just mean us to play and help balance, me being Chaos of course once again.))

If you mean that they aquire gold very fast, thats true, but i'll check it some more and if i think they're too strong, i might give them less HP. But i dont know about that yet.

Quote:

2> The Lizardmen summoning 12 poison elementals is straight ridiculous and is probably the biggest issue of all. The fact that they do sooo much damage, and can only be heart by certain attacks makes them pretty unreasonable by all means, especially with them having 1,100 hit points. That is over 12,000 hit points that you have to kill with special units while receiving over 1,000 damage from them combined. The Chaos hero only makes 2 elemental things which was not bad at all, and they are easily killed. If anything, being that the Lizardmen have the best defense and that their special unit is so hard to kill anyways because of his defense, (which is good that he has little HP) he should by no means be able to make 12 of those bastards. I can see 4 at the MAX. Me and my cousin played a damn good game and I was busting his behind then I let him catch up and we stayed even, until he did that 12 summoning thing of the poison creatures. That let him nuke EVERY base I had on the map with ease because they took forever to unsummon, and the minute they did, he was able to make them again. We played the map damn near 5 hours, because I kept making new bases and establishing armies in no time. My other cousin who was watching said he though he was doing that, I managed to play well enough to stay even, but there was no possible way for me to win as long as he kept making those, which is extremely lame. The only thing that kept me alive was the fact that we were playing on a 12 player map, and the map size should never be an aspect on the balance of a fight.

This unbalance has already been fixed in the NRM 3.2 beta. When 3.2 gets out all is fine with them.

Quote:

3> the Chaos race should have a +1 or +2 upgrade addition to their MAX Armor. Late in the game their armor is the worse it seems.

Hmm, maybe..I might give them a slight more base armor but i've gotta see about that yet...oh i forgot, in 3.0 not all upgrades function right, wait for 3.2 for them to function correctly

I've talked with RF about this, and he says its a kind of instant attack. However, might add some particle effects to the unit itself when he attacks, so it's more obvious.

Quote:

5> If a unit is set to follow another unit, it should not be followed any longer after it gets out of the followers sight range. I was able to set an IMP from my main base to an enemy unit I was fighting in battle on the other side of the map, and it followed him from WAY across the world and led me to his expansion.

This is not an error in NRM, it's a fault in Warcraft's hard coding. We are not able to fix this.

Quote:

6> There should be WAY more ranged units and air units in the game. He made a few air creatures and it allowed him to attack my armies very easily with nothing I could do about it, except lure him to towers, etc. Imps should also heal for more per second.

There will be a few more ranged units in 3.2 and they'll be slightly improved. The major case about them seemig few, is the 3.0 tech tree. The tech tree in 3.2 is completely redone (by me =D)

Quote:

7> Many buildings once destroyed do not disappear

We all know this on the NRM staff, but we will start fixing this when the most important things are corrected first.

Quote:

8> Scaling of buildings before being built is awful on some buildings, such as the Hell Gate. It is giant and then when built, it is small, which makes you sometimes place it in improper places, also some build spaces are too big for preview, and when built you can actually pass through where it looked you wouldn't have been able to do

Again one of those annoying bugs that take a long time to fix but don't satisfy alot when completed. To fix this the models have to be converted in 3ds MAX, scaled down, exported, and reimplanted into the game. This would take a loooong time, so we do the important things first.

Quote:

9> Inferno is awfully big. Not a problem, but wouldn't mind actually being able to see the top of it better, lol. It's that big, for what to come from it???

This is normal, the Inferno os ment to be a verrry big and imposing building.

Quote:

10> I gotta go, but I'll be back with more. Hopefully I can get the 3.2 beta and play with 3 other people, all with different races, me being Chaos, and we comment and write down Imbalances we find in the game. Ex: a special 4 man Beta Testing Team. ((There can be others, i just mean us to play and help balance, me being Chaos of course once again.))

There are already 20 people chosen for the NRM 3.2 beta, and signups have closed for some time now. Sorry, but you'll have to wait for 3.2's release. Expect patches for 3.2 when it's out though.

Okay, this was it, I hope to hear more balance fixes and bugs from you all. At your service,
-Dre

Thanks for addressing everything I mentioned directly. I could comment more, but I need to wait for the 3.2 version so I can see what has already been addressed. Maybe I will start a thread once I get ahold of it and keep adding to it as they come and checked them off as they are responded to.

Wish I knew about the beta testing earlier, but I just found this forum long ago, and never noticed the New Race part til recently. Last time I came to it. Oh well, keep me on tabs for the next betas though. ;)

Thanks for addressing everything I mentioned directly. I could comment more, but I need to wait for the 3.2 version so I can see what has already been addressed. Maybe I will start a thread once I get ahold of it and keep adding to it as they come and checked them off as they are responded to.

Wish I knew about the beta testing earlier, but I just found this forum long ago, and never noticed the New Race part til recently. Last time I came to it. Oh well, keep me on tabs for the next betas though. ;)

my only suggestion is that i think the lizarmen need new models but thats really my only nag cause you've made a very great mod guys i hope 3.2 is as good if not better but it certainly looks classy

The comps really ought to build devines. Once I bild mine, the game's basically over, and while I like winning, Id also like a bit more of a challenge.

Yes. We got a new AI maker now so expect 3.2 AI to be alot more difficult.

This mod is great... Defiently one of the better Warcraft 3 mods I have played.. Is there going to be an actual campaign involving maybe each race in their own kind of struggle, or maybe some of them fighting?

Also, I think a history of them(the races) and how everything came to the way it is would be pretty good, if you have time...

As far as gameplay goes, Its pretty fun. I like how fast the Trolls mine, and how they mine faster than all the other races(or it seems that way). If Possible, I think you should try to add more Racial Idenity to each race... Like perhaps make one race hardly need wood at all, like chaos.. Or perhaps a different type of resource? Or is that not even possible with the current scripting power of Wc3?
Like.. Perhaps needing to collect items from creeps or around the map that are in those Boxs or NPC buildings.

Also, A neat Idea I just got for a race would be like a race of bandit-like people, where they really have no specfic set base but a movable one.. Not like the Trees though, more speed, and like they aquire most of their resources through raiding, looting, and theft rather than mining.

Also, spice up the name of the chaos maybe.. well I'm not original, and maybe its just me, but chaos seems like a weird name for a race. Everything else I had beef with was already addressed, but I greatly compliment you!

Goodjob.

A campaigns is planned, the story is almost done.
We're planning to add more racial speciality for the 3.2 version. When TFT comes out Dre is planning to redo the unitdata and make it much more balanced.

Also a half playable race, the Skaven (which is rat people) are planned to be in the campaign like the naga is in TFT. And who knows, maybe it will be fully playable someday.

Oh and Chaos is just short for "Hordes of Chaos"

I've been playing a lot of Wood Elf V.S. Chaos, and I've noticed that the wood elves ground forces can not even begin to stand their own, even with decent micro against chaos.

To even beat the chaos, you pretty much HAVE to use Dragon Hawks. I think thats a cool concept, the wood elves having a really good "airforce" so to speak, but they need more air units, otherwise its basically just like "oh.. you have to mass dragon hawks to beat chaos," I'm not sure how they do against other races, but this is just what i've noticed.

use claw rangers. Piercing works well against chaos' heavy armor.

I think what he was trying to say was that you should make it so there are many ways to kill chaos, instead of just having to mass dragonhawks, or even use claw rangers for that matter, the game needs to adapt to each person's style of gameplay so there should be many more ways to defeat an opponent.

That'll all be included in the next version, just be patient