Advanced Melee

I think it is consensus that custom spells would be better. since it will preserve the fact that spells are unique to each race.
Fiery did say that he tried to keep things fun without having to edit spells, so in my opinion, given this restrain, he has accomplished his goal, the map IS fun. In fact, I would love to see these features being applied to the other standard melee maps (triggers copied over and unit database too).

Does FT provide better options for spell editing? I also wish that it would be possible to create new spells and not needing to base it on an old one.

just a point about the Owlbear, it looks very much like an Owlbear (an actual monster form dungeons and dragons) so i dont know what you mean you refear to treants, when i look at it i think 'bear with owl beak', not 'it looks like an ancient'

i woundnt have even noticed if not for OrleanKnight's comments.

Btw neat map fiery, although i agree that custom spells/ abilities would add greatly to the map.

1 thing tho i didnt like the map layout alot, the long thin canyons where you built your base where just anoying as you had to walk half way across the map and then back again just to egt to the base next to you. i think you should consider making larger open areas as it was all very cramped.

oh and consider reducign the human air supremacy. Four air units eahc one suited for a different purpose is kinda overpowered

one last thing, some units seem pretty useless, while others are almost impossible not to use, for instanse the UD infernal siege thingy is kinda useless, it really needs some more dmg.

One more thing to add for NE, the Restless Oak does not have a weapon hit sound.

For humans:
1) Yes, the humans have a tad too many air units.

2) When you get the Quel'Dorei swordsmen, it becomes unnecessary to produce footmen anymore.

3) I feel that the militia is pretty useless since peasants can be turned into them. I've not tried producing militia but since peasants cost no food, are cheaper and can be turned into militia, I think the militia becomes redundant.

4) I love the spearmen, I think they are a good idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I definitely recall seeing Owlbears and Berserk Owlbears playing through the Warcraft III single player campaign on Hard difficulty.

The 'no such thing as owlbears' complaint is the stupidest f*cking thing I've heard in my life.

Single Player campaigns were created after they decided to scratch the Owlbear model as a treant. Notice how they used the Night Elf Assassin (Which was a Night Elf Hero)and Sentinel(Which came before the Huntress) in the dungeon that led to Illidan. The only they didn't reuse was the Gargoyle Tower (To be honest, I want Stone Gargoyles back, they made great tanks.)and the original Dread Lord Model.

Don't know about the Dread Lord Model? Listen to his sound effects, he comments on his old clothing. The voice was made for the first model, which was wearing something that looked too much like a Dress.

Blizzard scrapped A LOT of models and recycled them. If you don't believe me, take some time to read through the main .mpq file. You'll find some pretty interesting stuff.

In reply to both BBDino and SyDemon I wrote a huge long post on what changes I plan to make next patch on how to address all that was suggested here... but it said I used too many Smilies and timed out.. so instead I will just say, that I read your replies and I have made a list of things to change when I make a new version.

Also since now 5 people have told me custom spells would make it better, I am considering putting in custom spells that have same stats as the current ones, but have names that make sense and graphics that make sense. These would be temporary only, because when FT comes out, there will be many new spells to base off of, and I would rather wait till then to add fully unique spells in.

If you have any ideas on spell names that could replace the move names of the new heroes, please post or E-mail your idea to me.

Also in reply to Human Air superiority.

I kind of like the unique air units they have and would hate to remove them, but if anyone has ideas on a ground unit that could be added in if i removed the Dragon Hawk, please either post them or E-mail your ideas to me.
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Fiery_Maelstrom

"Dressed to kill, blah"

:D

Interesting. I guess they did sort of keep the skirt look going. Tichondrius looks more like he's wearing shorts, compared to the "kilt" of the Dreadlord.

I think we all miss the Assassin. Fortunately the Warden is in Beta, she is fun to play. Blink is so insane.

The war3.mpq is filled with interesting stuff. Look in the Campaigns file and extract the last mission of the Night Elves. You'll see in the world editor that they added many new units that the computer uses. It's quite interesting. Makes sense to see in the campaigns how quick the computers can build units so quickly.

Regarding SyDemon's suggestion on putting these settings onto a different map. It's in the process. The unit kinks still need to be finely tuned before they are added to Fiery's next tile set.

-Riven,

It's a real pity too. I expected more from WarCraft 3 Single Player. To be honest, they never put their very best AI to work unless you figure out where it is.

If you want a real pain-in-the-*** fight the the most complicated AI Blizzard has ever made, play the Orc Campaign. I can't remember the mission name, but go to the mission where you play Thrall lead his forces agaisnt numerous Human Bases. Grom Hell Scream has a base right next door and now and then he runs out to attack the enemy in a Clock-wise cycle.

Be brave, Attack Grom HellScream when he's out on one of his attack runs. The computer will then add you to his clock wise attack cycle. Then, you will have to face Grom, and ALL The human forces on the map. This was probably the most action-packed battle I've ever had.

These games are full of little things.

wow, so much writingemote_sweat i think that this is a good concept but the NE really need work. almost every thing about them is kinda messed.

Hmm.. well that is what we are trying to solve, but If you think they are messed please right down what you think is messed and we can discuss solutions....

Fiery_Maelstrom:ggani:

well... everything. expecialy the spells. not really NE type. like the death and decay.

Everything eh? Could you be a little more specific.

To me, most things seam to be well placed. I do agree that Death and Decay doesn't quite make sense on a Night Elf but it was placed into the game for balancing issues. As I have posted before (not expecting you to read up all what has been said) you can't really expect every Night Elf hero to be duplicates of each other.

Fiery and I plan on editing spells and if the alpha channeling on my drawing program will decide to fix itself some models will be changed.

He wants to wait for Frozen Throne to edit spells as there will be much more to base skills off of.

-Riven

some custom spells would be good...

the giant treant is kinda funny.

And you thought I was bad?

Ok so I am going to sum up all we have discussed and announce how I plan to change them or why I want to leave them. This way we can discuss what changes have not been addressed and need more addressing without hopping pages or looking through 20 posts.

Here we go (These are changes for next version):

Glaive Sentry:
I have rebalanced her so, she is no longer stronger than a Huntress, and her glaive attack works now. It retains True Sight as it would be completely useless very early on.

Night Elf Heroes:
Their spells will be changed to custom variants of the current ones.

Giant Treant:
This has had its size decreased by about 10%. Its model remains because it is much more detailed than the Treant (which looks terrible large), and not many people know about the Owlbears pre-release history, they only know whats in game now.

Ancient of Impediment:
Size has been corrected, hotkey no longer clashes with Altars. It also keeps its color, because as soon as possible, I would like to replace its frost breath slow, with one that makes more sense. ie) slow poison variant. (Involves custom spells)

Tech-tree:
This will probably be changed.

Huntress Hall:
The single unit trained there is located there so if anyone wants to build the unit available there, they must sacrifice researching, or build another Huntress Hall.

Green Drakes:
Will probably be rebalanced.

Undead Skeletons:
Only two Undead units spawn skeletons and one costs 7 food and other costs 5, the Skeleton that spawns is quite weak and adding detonate to night elf units that die would bu unbalance as any melee with mana would be instantly mana-disabled.

Custom Spells:
I plan to add temporary ones for now, and permanent ones when FT comes out. This means I need ideas for about 48 Hero spell names, and a bunch for unit spells. If you want to help me out, just send the spell, the unit it is on, and the name you think would suit it good. Thanks!

Forest Sprite:
I have fixed clashing hotkey and I will try to make it more easily recognized.

Death and Decay:
The Enchantress' move will be renamed and given a different spell graphic temporarily.

Map Layout:
If this map does not fit your style, I am in the process of making a new one. Thsi one has less creeps, but more open space. It also is the opposite of desolace. It has a limited amount of gold you must fight over, not hundreds of thousands laying around like in Desolace. But it has an almost unlimited supply of trees. and the start locations are better planned out.

Human Air Superiority:
I plan on keeping the Bombadier and Blimp unless for some reason they must be removed... , but if anyone knows a unit idea to replace the Dragon Hawk, please post it or E-mail it to me.

Useless Units:
I will look over the anti-seige melee units, they might get a dmg boost, but you must remember, they do more damage to fortified armor than say a Daemon, or a Primal Rager, and the cost less food and gold.

Quel'Dorei Swordsman:
This unit does in essence replace the Footman. But in this map every race gets replacements. Burning dead or ghouls are replaced by restless dead or death revenants, grunts by chaos grunts, huntress' by Vines.

Conscripts:
This unit is meant as a unit that lets you get double the creep force in half the time. It does nearly as much dmg as a footman for less gold and food. And you can build them *while* building Footman. if you micro them and not let them get aggroed, they add in quite some dmg to your creep force.

Other changes:

Restless Dead:
I switched the current Skeleton model for the Zombie one. Zombies being known for their resistance to staying down.... *cough* Resident Evil.

War Riders:
I removed the ability for Orcs to build these from their Beastiary, as they could build them from 2 buildings. now they must be built at the War Totem.

__________________________________________________

Well those are the planned changes so far, and once I get some more feedback on the other races, I will make a new version. If you got any comments, do post or E-mail me. This seems to be my main feedback thread, as no one seems to have ideas on the other 8. Keep sending the ideas! They are really helping out :D

Thanks!
Fiery_Maelstrom