Ting dong!

So, yet again, AEV was bypassed, and some MOD everyone hates is on the homepage...? >.< More IM's to Draco...

"change the name of footman to swordman and alter his Hp by reducing it 100 points. Wow. great TC i've got there.... "

What in the hell are you talking about?

Also, thanks Dre, I appreciate it, try convincing others of what you said...if they can be convinced.

That project isn't hosted here linkmaster.

Just checkin :P

I know that Warbringer labels this as a TC (which technically isn't true), but don't come down so hard on him for that. This is a project that he has been working in consistently for the past year. I was one of his testers, and I have to mention that Warbringer has logged on hours upon hours of testing on Battle.net (with us) for balancing and gameplay. If you want to discredit his work, you are plain rude and disrepsectful. Keep those comments to yourself. How would you like it if someone said this to you after your year of hard work? Don't think you would like it either.

As he emphasizes again and again, he is into the gameplay portion of his project rather than the flashy art. Give him credit for actually making a 1.0 release of a project, something that only 5-6 projects here could even boast about. I don't want to diss artists, but artists in general pose problems for projects. People love to see art, but if there is no substance in your projects (in the form of solid gameplay and coding), you have nothing but fluff and special effects and will wow the people for 5 minutes. The 6 months that projects spend on the so called "plot design", "character creation," and art is the problem at heart. It's great to make a few sketches or even render a few 3D models of concept art, but without code, maps, and substance, the project will never get anywhere. We've seen this many times over, and I don't need to even try to give examples. Give Warbringer credit for actually finishing something because that is an accomplishment in itself.

People nowadays are so superficial, especially the people who belong to the generation that was raised under the era of the Playstation / N64 and thereafter (PSX and N64 were awesome systems but read on for my reasons). During the time of the PSX, tons of new breakthroughs in technology were taking place. Graphics and presentation were a major factor back then (and still are now). Kids who played video games back then (the people who are 14-15 years old now) were raised under that philosophy that great graphics and storyline made a great game. I can't change how you think, but I will make this point. You will see time and time again that gameplay is the most important factor in creating a good game. The best games are not those with the flashiest presentation, but those that innovate a genre in an impressive way. Take a look at all the games that are considered classics today (Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Street Fighter, Tetris, Half-Life, etc.). They have one thing in common: revolutionary gameplay.

What I want you to take from this is the following: Play a game before you criticize it. The game may not be using the most advanced technology; the game may not look up to par with the rest of the pack in terms of graphics; but if the game plays well and is truly fun, its shortcomings will be overlooked since they really don't matter. If you still hate the game after playing it for more than half an hour, then so be it. At least you gave it a fair shot and judged it righteously.

If you are going on a date and the girl is downright unnattractive, will you even make the effort to get to know her in the hopes that she might have a standout personality worth a relationship?

NO.

because looks are the engine that drive the more "important" stuff to be accepted. If you have a wicked blademaster character who is completely balanced and his abilities are all great...but when he attacks an enemy, his animation is slightly off or it looks corny...guess what? People (human beings) will subconciously detect the unnatural flaw in his movement and this will discredit him to some degree as a possible favorite character.

Looks arent everything, no. But wihtout looks, you dont have anything worth playing through. They are the incentive to keep going. Gameplay mechanics alone will never do this.

EDIT

oh and btw, im close to 19 years old. I played Fallout 1, 2 and even Jill of the Jungle and Blake Stone (yeah, those were classics) But even THOSE games had satisfying graphics to keep things going. I'm telling you right now, if Jill didnt have such a sexy jump i might never have been able to force myself though all 50 odd levels.

life is aesthetics, in some degree or another. And often, things we dont recognize as obviously beautiful are accepted as such by our subconcious without us knowing. (the satisfaction we mysteriously get every time we see an orc grunt go down under a Paladin's hammer.) It's timing, stylez character rendering which brings out the units personality, and belieavable movement that all come together to make a satisfying moment that has us coming back for more. Combine THIS with gameplay mechanics, and you have the makings of a good game.

Never downplay art bud.

For the girl, depends on your level of being desperate. Im not sure thats a good question to ask guys on a computer game forum though.
Besides graphics, respected people of the community have given us a good heads up to what is to look forward to,bad things apprently and nothing really special. At 50 mb I for one am not downloading it.
-VS

Uh.. Im not sure there's much correllation between computer game forums and getting laid, but i could be wrong. I'm a compulsive gameaholic (yes, i the first thing i do after sex is an intense level of max payne. my gf thinks its cool too, and why shouldnt she, its a ****ing ILL ASS game!

but getting back to my point...yeah, i dont have one. Basically, dont go hating on us game freaks. Not all of us are 50 y/o **** jobs who's most intimate sexual moments have been with a copy of the Sear's bra catalog and mr right hand.

Although spanking it does kick ass as well. (OK woman, its time for a PRO to take over, move outta da way)

^_^

Well, I found a reason to hang around here, if only in this thread. And you're complaining about crappy names? I hope you weren't referring to human names, becuase if you think those are all gibberish you're dead wrong :P They're so named to reflect the culture the DR humans are designed to resemble - that of the Middle East in general and Persia/Iran in particular. If we had gone through the effort of all-new skins and models, maybe that would have been a little easier for you to absorb, but a timely release was more desirable. Name changes would hopefully make up a little for the lack of visual representation of the humans' culture.

Besides, if you're all so concerned about stale looks and amateurity, then whydoes one of the brightest jewels in WC3C's crown, Nature's Call: The Spider Queen, have just that? New skins, new spells, polished terrain and non-gag-inducing writing it lacked. Yet people went wild for it. And here we have a mod with some new skins, completely new races with their own history and style, and a variety of new spells, and people bash it. Tell me, where and when was this new benchmark set that DR somehow cannot measure up to? Personally, I think its excellent, and all this naysaying and sidetracking is only going to make people more concerned about substance instead of style less enthused about trying it out.

Now, I will admit, the new races can leave some scratching their heads, with them being so different from Warcraft 3's. For those of you confused, I can help you out a little with the Humans, who can be the most disorientating of the lot thanks to their foreign names. Here's a summary of some of their units to help you keep from getting confused.

Fedaykin: The human equivalent of cannon fodder. Not especially weak, but not spectacular either. In massed groups though, they can be surprisingly deadly with their Shield Bash ability, and if luck is with the human commander opposing armies will disintegrate simply from being unable to fight back. Trust me, I've beaten Warbringer myself with this tactic - but I've countered it effectively too.

Sipahi - These may prove confusing, because although they're mounted, they are not the most powerful melee unit in the human's arsenal. Instead, they are simply mobile melee treeps good for countering pesky ranged attacks that humans otherwise are particuraly vulnerable to.

Immortal: The human heavy infantry unit. They are both powerful and cheap, and effectively make Fedaykin obsolete because they are far more cost-effective and embody the same basic abilities.

Futuwas: The human ranged infantry unit. Not stellar when compared to the other races' ranged units, but it alone has the ability to switch to a melee attack and join the fray of battle in hand to hand combat. This is especially useful if the enemy gets cavalry among your futuwas or if you need extra melee troops to screen your other ranged troops.

That covers the basic units. Humans sport two magic units, and they focus on raising the dead and other necromantic spells. They do boast an impressive air force, with three flyers to choose from, two of them of the heavy variety. They also have the useful trick of pack horses, which have a dual purpose - they act as mobile gather points and can be mounted by Fedaykin to become Sipahi at a pinch. Heroes are also very melee-oriented, with two meant mainly to act as heavy melee support, and two magic users to bolster that somewhat lacking aspect and to reflect the nobility-centered status of magic in Gehenna, the humans' kingdom.

So, to sum up the Humans - they are, hands down, the most formidable melee machine in DR. To face even a force of simple Fedaykin, if they are properly upgraded, is courting disaster if you don't strategize correctly. You also must, must, MUST keep a close eye on humans as well, scouting them as much as possible, because although they're melee oriented, they are perfectly capable of fielding a potent air or magic army. Fortuenatly, these can be easily detected with some simple surveillance and take time to tech up to, but the effectiveness of low-tier, cheap Human units means that it's easier for a Human player to protect him or herself while they build up their economy. To beat the humans, you need to tailor your army to counter their forces, but if you have to guess, make sure you have a powerful ranged force with some sort of screen for it, to ensure that it doesn't get overrun by melee units. Area-of-effect magic is also a powerful card to play against massed Fedaykin, Sipahi and summoned undead.

Hope this has been of some help to you all :D


Frequent visitor I am not, but more common then not I end up being verbose.

Just a little thing i'd like to add, there is a LITE version. At least i did a dual release of a LITE and FULL version, right? because I know people like you would be around, saying "i don't wanna DL a huge 50 MB file! its got no art!"

Good, then go DL the one below 20MB.
If you don't play it, don't bitch about it.

Thanks to the other folks who tried it :)

oh and Dre, why is the Star of david on the skulls forehead? o.O

I dont mean 2 bash on it too hard iguess.. its just not my slice of cake cus im into AOS style maps mostly as opposed to melee (i find them tediously long and boring even with blizzards standard units)..

so throw in a bunch of weird units i aint never seen b4 with no new art or any incentive....and i dont find much to like.

But thats just me, so dont take it too seriously.

Unfortunately, this is the reason why so many projects heere have failed. It's great if a project here can pull off great art AND get done in a reasonable time, but that simply has not happened. Granted that most projects here would be less appealing without the custom art, but being done is ALWAYS better than not. I'm a former admin here, and I know how projects here progress.

1. Leader comes up with great idea, gets all excited about it. Leader starts designing the basics of the map/project/whatever.

2. Leader announces his idea to others. Others get interested in the idea.

3. Leader asks for helpers. Leader tends to overdo this and ask for people who he doesn't need until the end of the project. Ever seen those threads like this: I am looking for 5 skinners, 3 modelers, 3 map makers, a cinematics person, an icon maker, voice actors, a writer who will write the script, beta testers... blah blah blah...

4. Leader gets some people, usually a skinner, an icon maker, and maybe a mapper. If they're lucky, they may snatch a modeler too.

5. Leader tells artists to make tons of art according to the storyline and game design. Leader shows off all the art and continues by saying that the project is being designed.

6. Several weeks later, if the project is headed by a decent leader, the mapping part will start. First map gets done. Beta testers test it. Project makes more art to show off in the meantime to generate more interest.

7. A month or two later. Leader can't manage to keep a team together. Some members leave, and the leader tries to get more people. And the cycle repeats... and nothing ever gets done beyond the very basics. And if the project is even lucky enough to get forums, the team will spend almost all of its time doing discussion in the forums rather than working.


In the end, you have a dead project with a good amount of art done and nothing else.


Sounds familiar, especially to those who have been here long enough. There are some great projects here, but there are also some that are not successful, and they may seem to follow this pattern I've described.

No idea about the star, Warbringer, it's just the model of an upgraded TToR punisher, it only has one triangle when its not upgraded, so I guess it doesn't have a meaning in TToR. Actually I just noticed it, cause i thought it was a pentagram first, didnt look closely =D.

Dre

It IS a pentagram. There used to be a triangle before but i thought it was kinda gay so i changed the skin a bit

Sounds like the fps mod left a bitter taste in Dark Triforce's mouth. ^_^ But he is right for the most part.
-VS