Map Protecting -- Rants, Raves, and all your stupid Thoughts

Nah, you wouldn't. Not only do the people editing your maps typically not have money, the entire thing is already covered by copyright laws. Blizzard owns the copyright to all the maps created for its games, thus, you have no ability to copyright or license them in any way. Essentially, Blizzard owns any work you create using the world editor, but they're nice enough not to try and claim it all as theirs :P

People getting into other maps is a problem on my consent even if Blizzard says look at other maps for references.

I mean like look at many maps unprotected like Sheep Tag for instance. Come on now. There is 30 maps that are the same. But just changed the credits from the original person who made it to their name and release it out. As you can see Sheep Tag is still popular for a game that dates back to RoC and look what happen to it now. Same map 50 people to have credits.

It would be better if Blizzard made world editor like this...
Person who made map can do what ever to it and save.
Person who dled it and went to open it on WE could only look at it yet cant change anything.

This would be better then all this nonsense map protections, cracking, and false crediting.

Yes, Blizzard should make a way to distribute a "view only version". Maybe a seperate way of storing the data, so It can even be opened in the editable way. For example, use a psuedo JASS that wont parse ingame- only in a view portion of the editor. This would be imported into each map, and referenced to each file inside the map, so It cant be easily deleted. Have the editor check if it has non editableness applied to it, if so It locks all editing functions, and opens the file in the "read" section.

In order to have an editable copy, a code would be generated using the title, auther, unit count, etc from the map, than hashes it- making it appear a random string. Upon loading, it would unhash (is that a word, lol) the string, split the values using an algirithum, than compare the values to the map. If they match, it opens normally. If they dont, you get the non editable version.

Breakdown:

1. Save a psuedo JASS language file into the map, which must be included in order to open
2. Have the above file parsed into a uneditable code that also pervents copy and pasteing (you wouldnt get real JASS, just the GUI layout)
3. Genorate a hashed, encrypted code that is formulated by several variables in the map
4. Compare the code upon opening to the maps attributes (check for match)

Really just random, hardly coherient babblings, Ill post a copy thats more detailed what I think tommorrow, more organized (I know theres stupid Ideas in there, Im too tired to fix them up)

You seem to think all we care about is ourselves. Protected maps help REDUCE the low-quality crap we see everyday.

A mapper comes along and takes Winter-Maul. Turns it into something FUBAR and then releases it. Red has a great time, cause he knows what he changed. Hes having the time of his life.
Player # 2 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower.
Player # 3 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower.
Player # 4 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower. Player # 5 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower.
Player # 6 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower. Player # 7 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower. Player # 8 picks the worst class, and his towers do like 1 damage compared to red's 1000 dmg / mili-second ultra mega power tower.

you really want a 1/8 satisfaction rate? I think not.

Nope, that is wrong. PPL usualy DO share the maps, they give emails for contaccts etc. But losers think it is easier to open it right way before event asking for the original version of it. I am sorry, but map protection is not against "open source" maps. Anyone can contact the map developer and ask for the sources. It is up to the developer, wich it think it is a fair option, since he/she developed the map.

Not only that, but many of the people here that publish tutorials or code or help n00bs out are those same people that protect their maps. Surely people benefit more from the explanations and assistance than they would from just staring at the map trying to figure out how it works.
It seems to me that most mappers are not programmers, and so any trigger-heavy map is bound to give them problems. Without the help they recieve from the good mappers, I'd bet most of the people stopped by protection wouldn't get very far.

Do you really think putting 'official' in your version will make people not play other versions? Do you think the lamers that hack maps will take that out since their isn't official?

Again: How do you identify a crappy version of a map if all the person changes is a unit's damage or the like? You find a host, you wait for it to fill up, you wait for the game to start and everybody to load, and then you find out a unit does too much damage so you have to quit or play the crappy map. I'd rather save all the people that play the map those 5 minutes and just protect it so the only version out there is well balanced, cheat free, etc.

Also, do you think getting hosting makes people know which map is yours? Lets say I make a map and put my webaddress on it. Somebody hacks your map, leaves the web address the same, and re-releases it with some cheats and overpowered units. People play the hacked version, think the map is crappy, and never have any reason to go to your website (or worse yet, they go there and post all kinds of suggestions based on the crappy version and you have to scrub your forums, reply to lots of irrelevant posts, or let your map sound like crap on your forums). Sounds like a lot less work to include your web address, email, and just protect the map and let the few people that might actually improve your map contact you (where you can then take suggestions and improve your map yourself, or hand it over for somebody else to do, or give out unprotected versions, etc).

You're speaking of my mind... that's exactly the fact, why i protect my map.

i think that protecting a map its good and it will help the map making comunity... cuz... if i dont know how to do a trigger.. i will look and learn from my own creations... i have never seen/copy a map and im good making maps cuz i ask and learn..


in my opinion... if every 1 can look inside of the maps they will allways copy them and we will play the same map in 4452345245 versions with minor changes like the maps crap"MAUL" or stuffs like that but if we learn and make stuffs by our own, we can reach big stuffs!!!:foot: :ggani:

Or it could be a new version. You can't expect everybody on battle.net to regularly visit the homepages for the maps they play and constantly keep updated. If you could, you wouldn't need to worry about fake versions because everybody would have the original. Unfortunately, it seems that only mappers regularly visit other mapper's homepages (with a few users visiting the forums to make suggestions, and 99% of the people on battl.net downloading the mapp from other people oblivious about any of the issues discussed in this thread)

I feel that if you want to improve a map, its not too much to ask the author. If they refuse, you should respect their decision and either recreate the map yourself or find a similar map that isn't protected (very few original ideas, so there is probably a similar map out there).

Really though, I can understand why some people never release unprotected versions. It took a lot to decide to publish the ExtProtect source because I feel its quite ugly and reflects poorly upon my abilities, but somebody asked and after some consideration I figured it was secure enough that being open source wouldn't break it, so I released it. It was definitely a hard decision, and so far its the only thing I've released open source (really, one of the few things I've released at all - I can only think of 1 other program I've released publicly for the PC). I can definitely empathize with people that want to keep their hard work hidden and just show off the final product. It is a lot more amazing when you don't see the man behind the screen so to speak =-)

Blizzard should make a system so that people can open your maps, and see your triggers. But heres the catch: THEY CAN'T EDIT IT, DELETE IT, nor can they CnP it. Same goes with all those object editors, sound editors, etc. N00bs who open the map can't copy your triggers bcause they don't know how. BUT, n00bs who wanna learn can learn from looking at the triggers. I think that'll work.

Once AoS: The Hordes of Darkness is finished, its going to be Heavylocked permanently. But, I've got paid webhosting, and in the splash screen, the quest menu and the end of the map, there will be the address. This is the best I can do. On my site, I plan to release everything from my map, all the spells, all the systems, all the more advanced custom units. I plan to have tutorials on how I did some of the more advanced stuff, and a forum where people can talk about my map and ask questions. Why am I releasing everything but not unprotecting the map? Because I feel its the best I can do. I want to help the community. I want to help people make better maps and learn advanced techniques. It is true that most people don't visit sites that are displayed in maps, but I feel confident that if someone wants to learn how I did stuff and not just add some cheats and unbalance their favourite units, then they'll put in the effort to check my site out. I also think that if a person just wants to screw up my map for everyone but them, they won't bother putting all my downloadable material together and linking it all.
I remember when I was a young Battle.Net noob, when I was about 11 (around two years ago), I edited an Angel Arena map and made my favourite unit (the red Blademaster) have an agility bonus/level of around 100000000. I then released it on Battle.Net and crushed my enemies. I'm still ashamed of doing that to this day. The moral; if I had to unprotect the map or put all the source code together, I never would have bothered. Thats why I think it's safe to release everything from my map in different packages.
I'd love to release my map as open source, but the Wc3 commuting is so full of people who'd abuse my generosity that I wouldn't dare. Thats why I'm trying to do the best I can, and I hope that others who protect their maps do that too.

Wow.. Apparently going to bed last night made me miss alot. But it makes me laugh now thinking about the second post....


Funny, right? :ggani:


Now as for...


I'm not sure about the last 4, but Enfo's almost did die at one point. Enfo was having problems that prevented him from releasing an update for months. The only reason it stayed so popular was because DrHack cracked the protection on it and released his "Remix" version that removed many of the bugs from the 0.9beta.


To LegolasArcher: would you play a map that had a unit with 10,000 damage? Why do you think people would consider that "l33t" **** better than the original? I think everyone knows that people who talk like "l33t" are plain stupid.

ak47 and LegolasArcher: how do you plan to go about such a system of locking out anyone other than the author? Granted, like map protection, it'd keep the less knowledgeable person from screwin around with it, but the rest of us could easily change the information to make it look as though we're the original author. Ya gotta remember, computers are machines -- they're stupid.

Pesmerga: Again, would you play that map? And if that was the case, unless this Maul has changed drastically from the original that I remember months ago, even an Uber red wouldn't be able to stop the monsters in the other 3 lanes from getting to the goal and making them lose the game.

35263526: I think it's great that you're going to release all the material on your website like that. I just wish more people had the resources and time to do such things.



All in all, being the open source advocate that I am, I made this thread hoping to convince at least one person that map protecting is more harmful than good -- but I think I'm starting to see it the other way around. I mean, sure I know how to unprotect a map, but I wouldn't be so lame as to do it simply to make my units all uber strong.

Still, without the resources that 35263526 has, I would advocate leaving it unprotected. If I finish my current project (that'd be a first -- me finishing something) I... okay, well, I keep changing my mind now. Here's what I'll do, I'll get some webspace to host and teach all the stuff, like what 35263526 is, and keep my map protected... maybe I'll even have an unprotected version of it on the site but require people to fill out a form in order to download so they can tell me what they plan to do with it. That way, I can implement all the good ideas into my own version. Sound good? good!



Update:
Here's what I do to avoid crappy modded maps. Get the original and never download any other! I play Enfo's TS more than any other map -- I got the official version off his forum, and that's all I play. Sure, most of the other 1.0 versions out there are the same thing with just a different filename, but why bother with them? That's just promoting those bad filenames. And of course you can tell when you have the map and when you don't cause if you do you'll get the minimap and title displayed, instead of the filename. So yeah -- just stick to the official stuff! If you happen to come across a game that's crap, delete it! Get your maps from places like warcraftiii.net and make sure the author is teh same person that uploaded it... it's easy enough to tell 'cause other people don't bother to list any information other then "This map r0x0rs!"

If you have ever played on Bnet, you know that the "<Name> 1337 pWn0rzinggg versoon 1.3909493" will be played more than the "Official <Map Name> Version 1.2"- just because the morons on Bnet. If the map doesnt have a 10 digit Version number, mispelled words, and such, almost no one joins.

Red could always be grey. Or just build towers in everybodies space. Its not a matter of gameplay, its a matter of balance.