Lord Of The Rings (not just another LOTR mod)

i have been making a lotr campaign my self so far i have 1 finished map which is gandalf vs the balrog and 2 near finished ones the shire and the battle of mt.doom i have also finished my multiplayer helms deep and isengard combination map which just need converting to single player, the problem is im starting back at universtity soon so i wont have time to do this campaign on my own so im interested in hooking up with you, i'll put my helms deep here so you can see my standard of work so let me know if i can help out. i can do triggers/ terrrain, basic cinematics, file conversions, importing exporting, custom sounds spell editing, unit design and im good at level design and structure

my helms deep has many cool triggers, custom skins and film sounds, you can even break the dam and flood isengard

it didnt attach so i'll try again

it wont attach but you can see it at www.warcraftiii.net its posted under the name luke stevens and its called isengard & helms deep custom skins

Some ideas:

1) Prologue (CINEMATIC)
2) Hobbitton->Bree (Three is Company)
3) Bree->Weathertop (forgot name of chapters)
4) Weathertop->Ford of Bruinen (Flight to the Fords, or something)
5) Rivendell (Many Meetings/Council of Elrond) (CINEMATIC)
5) Rivendell->Eregion (The Ring Goes South)
6) Caradhras/West Gate
7) Moria
8) Lorien (CINEMATIC)
9) Sarn Gebir/Tol Brandir/Parth Galen/Amon Hen

That would conclude the Fellowship of the Ring.

Let me state up front that I don't want to do any cinematics. I have no problem doing terrain for cinematic maps, but it'd be REALLY nice if someone else could do the cinematics. This will give some other people something to do while the playable maps are being worked on.

With that said, logic dictates that we give the cinematic terrain maps priority. I want to get together with whoever volunteers to do the cinematics and get some map outlines hammered out. Grishnakh has evidenced some desire to work on #5, but that topic deserves its own post since the last time I outlined #5 it had 17 cinematic sequences. Heh. I think I'd like to go ahead and personally whip up a base terrain map for #5. There's just going to be so much more going on there other than the Council, what with the number of cinematics, that I think it'd be best if one person designed the base map. Then we can hand the base map to the first cinematic person who can do his job and then hand it on to the next person, sending a copy to me each step of the way (so we don't lose anything!).

I'll post more later, Lord willing.

Take care.

ive gotten some new models done. Elven warrior portrait, Mounted King Theoden (from lord garithos model) And Elendil underway.

No screens as of yet because the theoden hasnt been skinned and elendil is half done, but itll be done within a few days:D

havent checked that helms deep isengard map yet but i dont think it would go right with our campaign having two major battles on one map. Just my opinion.

renugaid

Sorry i havn't been keeping up with posting. But ive finnally typed up my ideas for the campaign. Theres too many to post here, so ive attached a word doc for you guys. Can i ask for as much criticism as possible, aswell if you guys could add to the ideas and/or change any mistakes much apreciated. i hope you guys can add alot more because atm im all out of ideas, maybe when u guys add ur input i can think of some more.

About the cinematics, im pretty interested in doing some of them just throw we something to do and ill see if i can get it done.

thx

-shortyXP

I hate RARs. Can you use ZIPs next time?

And I don't think it's too long. Here it is for everyone to read:

General ideas for the Lord of the Rings MOD for Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne

Interchangeable characters: - I don't know if you have noticed but on some custom games on bnet you get to control a fair amount of heroes, but the problem is that when the user gets to control more than about 3 heroes it becomes a dilemma for a number of reasons: the user interface gets clustered because of all the hero portraits, and secondly its just a pain to manage so many heroes. This affects us greatly as in some maps were we have the whole fellowship (or even less), this will become a problem. A proposed solution is that at anytime on any map were at least 2 members of the fellowship are present, the user has the ability to control 1 hero from the fellowship. When the user wants to control another hero from the fellowship, the user should lose control of his/her current hero, and then gain control of the newly selected hero. This will mean that the heroes that the user is not controlling at the current time will get taken care of by some sort of computer ai. This means that the user simply clicks on the hero they want to use and they get control of it. e.g. if the user is currently controlling Aragorn and thinks that they need Legolas to move on through a certain puzzle or kill a certain unit (As the comp ai does not finish the quests for you ) they will select Legolas. Aragorn will then be controlled by the computer and the user will gain control of Legolas. This also brings the idea of a new gameplay element were certain things e.g. enemies or certain puzzles need to be done in a certain way or with a certain character. Take for example (im not to sure if this happens in the book, only read FOTR) in the Two Towers, at the battle of helms deep Aragorn calls for Legolas to take out the Uruk-Hai with the fuse to the explosive bomb (what ever it is), if at that moment Legolas is being controlled by the computer he could just be shooting off Uruk-Hai but until the user gains control of Legolas and specifically shoots the Uruk-Hai that is going to blow up the wall the computer controlled Legolas will just ignore it. This then means that we must think of what what the computer ai must do at certain times and at certain places. But generally I think the ai should follow a general standard and only in certain situations does it need to be changed.

Idea addition (thx Renugaid): In addition to what I have mentioned on the interchangeable characters, another proposed idea is to let the user have ‘Hot-Keys' or buttons on the lower right (as no one really uses those) that let u control the computer controlled heroes to an extent. The extent being that you control them as a team, e.g. you can have a command that makes the heroes flee/retreat from battle. This idea saves you from clicking on each individual hero and telling it to move. This also brings another idea, of microing the fellowship. This will work by making sure that the computer heroes always stay behind the user controlled hero while moving and that they only target enemies that comes into the user controlled hero's acquisition range. This means that whenever the user selects a new hero the old hero goes behind the new hero into formation. How this works in combat and how the differentiations between melee and ranged heroes will work with this I have not yet thought of.

RPG Levelling System: - Because of the sheer scale of these maps and the sheer scale of the campaign, having our heroes gain levels only to level 10 is unreasonable, we need more levels available for our heroes. Anything between level 100 – level 200 (FT limit I think) is quite reasonable. How skills will work with this is another issue, but maybe for example you only get an additional skill point after a certain amount of levels. Another alternative is that (to also help with balancing) the user cannot choose the heroes skills , every level the skills change on a predetermined skill tree , and maybe after every 10 levels to overcome the max skills problem is maybe after a level 3 holy light it cold become a level 1 (modified) healing wave. So in this way the skills could stay in a way the same, but they just keep getting better or the hero could just obtain a different set of 10 skills after every 10 levels. This is a major concern that I think we need to discuss in more detail.

Mountable Transports and Mountable Fighters: - The fellowship should have the ability to mount transports e.g. rafts, eagles, horses etc. These mounts give you increased movement speed and sometimes gives you access to certain unreachable locations. I think this is a vital feature needed in our mod. Another idea which isn't vital is mountable fighters. Mounts that give the unit that mounted it an extra attack boost. E.g. mounted hippogryphs but obviously something related to LOTR. This can be implemented by merging models e.g. merging a model of a riderless horse and Gandalf.

Models We Will Need: - I was just thinking about the amount of custom models we need, I am sure we can make do for some of these with default units but custom skins but in any case here is the list so far:

Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, Samwise, Frodo, Pipping, Mary, Gandalf the Grey, Balrog, Sauroman, Tom bombadil, Elrond, bilbo, Galadriel, Arwen, Lobelia Sackville Baggins, Nazgul, Flying Nazgul, Gandalf the white mounted on a horse, the watcher etc.

Ideas for ‘The Battle for Helm's Deep'

Victory/Defeat Conditions: - I presume there will be 2 teams, Humans and Orcs (if I may call them). So therefore the conditions should be for the humans: To defend helms deep completely or fend the orcs off until dawn. And the orcs need to the opposite and stop the humans from achieving this.
Note: This brings me to the question, are we going to make the game flexible or linear to the story? E.g. in this example (Helms Deep) is it better to give the human team the opportunity to completely stop the orcs from overrunning the deep or to just keep the story linear and making it that the humans can never defeat the orcs in that scenario. I think we should go for the linear approach, but try and implement some variation/flexibility to an extent e.g. waiting till dawn. As well we need to think about what happens if a member of the fellowship dies. I think this is also an issue of concern, because just making it that you lose the mission if a fellowship member dies is a bit stupid, because Gandalf dies and the fellowship still continue their journey. But I guess that that's probably the only way to make it work despite being a tad unrealistic.

Unit-Effectiveness Comparison: - The Rohan people have become weak just like there king. But now there survival is at stake and so they must come together and fight as an army and as militia. For this reason the Rohan people should be weaker to an extent compared to the Uruk-Hai (who are more armoured orcs anyway). The riders of rohan are quite strong as they are riding horse, and are a regiment commanded by the king, and have Aragorn the future king riding by there side (I think Legolas and Gimli as well not sure). When around Gandalf units should be stronger too, as he can provide some magical bonus/aura. There should also be a benefit when the fellowship is together compared to when they are split up.

The Horn: - The horn can only be used one and can only be controlled by Gimli. The horn should have one or a combination of the following ideas: make the orcs run away in fright, reduce their armour (as a representation of them losing there will to fight), or the defenders (humans) can become roared or blood lusted or something similar. This can also be an incentive to keep Gimli alive. (Depending on what we decide about heroes dying).

Ladders: - Ladders can be place and mounted on the walls by the Uruk-Hai. These ladders let the Uruk-Hai scale the wall of the deep. They should be destructible, but hard to hit. E.g. it's hard for an archer to shoot down the ropes of the ladder keeping it attached to the wall. The Uruk-Hai should only have a small amount of ladders that they try to mount the. The other Uruk-Hai can try to take the deep through the stream, or barging into keep, or shooting ranged attacks from afar. So ladders should not be the only way for the Uruk-Hai to progress, but it is a useful way.

These are all my ideas for the moment, maybe you guys can fill in the gaps and/or correct me.

Ninq im sure you can fill in the ideas for these and any others you can think of:

The Keep:-

The Caves:-

Thx guys

-shortyXP

Awesome Shorty. Thanks. Let's all mull this over and post our replies.

Take care.

Thx ninq. Yeh i know i hate the rar's too, but it was the only way i could because of my pc see below, my bad.

Unfortunately my pc has gone hay wire (although i managed to send the ideas just intime BUT in rar lol), and i cant access any of my files, so atm i am using a spare pc that can only use the internet so until i can get my pc fixed ill just have to sit and wait on the forums. :p

keep up the posts.

Some new HD shots are here:

http://www.bellsouthpwp.net/n/i/ninquenor/newhdpics.htm

Take care.

ShortyXP wrote:I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. At one extreme I want to keep it simple and only allow control of one at a time, with the comp using some basic AI to handle the rest. And at the other extreme I want the player to simply have all units under explicit control. I dunno'. I think we ought to go with the latter for now, since it involves the least amount of extra work. I'll make it so the players get control of a member, but if they're not there it gives control to another player. For example: if three people play, each should get three members of the fellowship.

ShortyXP wrote:Good idea, but only if we go with the one at a time control philosophy. Won't be needed until that point, so again, I suggest we wait.

ShortyXP wrote:I had plans on allowing them to level past 10, but something more along these lines:

1-5 normal individual
6-10 exceptional individual
11-19 elite individual
20 Lord
50 Master

So one could become a “Lord� (e.g., Lord Warrior, Lord Archer, Lord Wizard, etc.) in one's profession relatively easy, but becoming a Master would take lots of work. I would reserve anything higher than 50 for things like resurrected Gandalf, Dragons, and Balrogs (lvl 66 – heh).

As far as skills, I want to keep them as natural and unobtrusive as possible, in keeping with Tolkien's more realistic approach to fantasy. In other words, sorry folks, Frodo won't have Wind Walk and Chain Lightning. :)

Simple stuff like critical strike, evasion, and the like, could be enhanced with the ability to advance several times in each. More than the default 3 for instance. And a definite YES to the idea of advancing past level 3 in a given skill. We'll definitely be doing this.

As for details, I'd prefer to cross that bridge when we come to it.

ShortyXP wrote:Definite YES to having mounts. Bill is already in there. I noticed a pack horse/mule model. :)

Mounted fighters? Hmm. I understand where you're coming from. We'll work something out, but I definitely want to make it so the mounts can be killed.

ShortyXP wrote:Somebody else work this out. I'll be more than happy to have any custom models (and skins) we can get, but that's a later concern in my mind.

ShortyXP wrote:Humans should win by killing the orcs. Of course at first this will be nigh impossible, since they'll outnumber the humans severely. But at dawn remember, they will be reinforced by Gandalf and Erkenbrand with a large force of footmen, as well as by the Huorns.

The orcs win by killing the humans. I don't want to enforce some kind of time limit victory conditions, where the orcs lose if there are any surviving humans after dawn. That's sort've retarded in my opinion. Simple rules here. Reduce the enemy to nothing.

As far as what happens if a member of the fellowship dies, I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think there are any parts where something HAS to be done a certain way. Sure, having certain members alive on certain maps will help (e.g., Aragorn's ability to summon a one-shot army of dead in the Paths of the Dead) but I don't think we should REQUIRE it.

These aren't normal lowly orcs, so you're right, they should be stronger than the average Rohirrim. The Eorlingas however should be able to whoop some serious orc booty. And yeah, Aragorn and Gandalf, even Erkenbrand, Eomer and Theoden, should all provide some kind of beneficial aura. I disagree about any kind of benefit for having the fellowship together. I don't think Aragorn/Gimli/Legolas were hindered significantly by the lack of Frodo/Sam. In a sense they had LESS to worry about. Heh.

The Horn, ahh yes. It can be blown more than once (it makes the coolest sound), but its effect should only be usable once. And ANYBODY can blow the horn, not just Gimli! That's silly to limit it thusly. The results of the horn on the orcs should be to make them ALL run towards the opposite end of the map. The orc player(s) will be able to control them, but it will be VERY difficult. I plan on making the effect of the horn last for a set duration, during which each orc will be periodically instructed to head to the opposite end of the map. Not an attack-move, just a regular move, so they'll just run and not stop to fight. If a player grabs some orcs and counters this order, that's fine, but shortly thereafter the run order will be given again. It'll be random for each orc, so the player will have to keep grabbing various orcs and re-ordering them until the timer runs out on the effect. Very effective orc players will be able to minimize the chaos by swift clicks, but the majority of the orcs should end up at the opposite side of the map. If timed correctly, this will place the bulk of the remaining orc forces right between a Wizard, a Warrior, 1,000 Rohirrim footmen, and a forest of Huorns.

Ladders. I experimented briefly with these way back when, but I don't know. I'll have to check the new editor for a likely candidate. I want to do it right, and not use some kind of hack.

The Keep. Troops can be garrisoned in the Hornburg. There are no siege engines, so this can serve to protect your heroes.

The Wall. A way will be worked out so the orc players can utilize some “devilry of Saruman� to blast the battlements and culvert, granting access to the Deep.

The Caves. The caves will be physically modeled in the map, so as the orcs you can fight your way thru the Deep and into the caves. As the humans you may end up having to retreat all your forces to the caves, which should serve to hinder the enemy a bit as the quarters will be cramped.

That's all from me for now. Good discussion Shorty!

Take care.

I too once tried organizing a LoTR campaign, but I failed. This one looks as if it's going very well, and if you need someone else on the team, I would love to join.

I've read the Lord of the Rings books and have knowledge of some stuff you might want to know. I've also read a book specifically on the history of Middle Earth if you need any of that stuff.

I also work on cinematics and can design maps. I can't do any modelling (because I lack a 3d animator) but if you need any suggestions etc, I guess I could be useful for that too. If you need a voice actor for someone I have a mic. I can't do much else, but if you want me on your team I would be glad to join.

Models we will need.
Thanx for jogging my memory Shorty i was planning on making a list of all the units i was planning to use so people could object to things they didnt agree with.

so heres the list (ones that don't need remodelling will have * at the end and ones with # have already been skinned):

aragorn - arthas with sword#
gimli - mountain king/muradin#
legolas - archer#
boromir - uther#
gandalf(grey) - furion/malfurion
gandalf(white) - archmage#
hobbits - villager male (not sure about this one yet)
tom bombadil - villager
generic humans - villagers
elrond - priest
arwen - villager female*
galadriel - sorceress
generic elves - elven peasants*
elven warriors - spellbreakers#
human warriors - captain
gil galad - demon hunter#
Elendil - admiral proudmoore
isildur - arthas with sword
saruman - furion/malfurion
uruk hai - hellscream#
orcs - grunts#
wargs - wolves*#
warg riders - raiders#
nazgul - evil arthas
flying nazgul - arthas attached to a dragon
watcher - tentacle and its building*
cave troll - abomination
mountain troll - mountain giant*
war troll - beast master


some using the same base model will end up looking very different after remodelling.

if ive forgotten some please tell me and comment on what the units should be.

renugaid

First of all, I'm glad to here about the new-map thing, Heaven. This loosens the load on me, and gives me an idea of what we will be attempting in future development.
Another thing. bigmig, do you think you could leave some skinning for me?! You are literally going crazy over there, and I want something to look forward to when I get back (1 week). It's not very long in the scheme of things. If you could get the models done, I could finish skins on whatever isn't done already.
Umm, about the shield, I thought it looked good already, but I'm sure the new one will look good. (the one that looks like the former, but not more like a leaf, right?)
I believe that, since we are going all out, we should not settle with Blizzard models that "look" like something outa the book. I believe Arwen was said to have dark hair, after her half-elven father.

Well, I appreciate that you are still posting ideas, untill I can get back and get work done. Please keep the descriptions coming, either by this post, or by pm....

Happy Mapping! :foot:

p.s. It will be good to bring back Glorfindel, and not have Arwen rescue them on the Eastern Road... That was a major gripe about the first movie... :ggani:

Ok we're planning on having a section on Heaven's webpage for the team members, so we can have all the IM handles, email addresses etc. all in order.

So anyone who has joined up, just make a post with:

NAME
EMAIL ADDRESS
ICQ#

AREAS OF SKILL

Thanks.

the grishmaster

Top down of the Burg:


Bird's eye:


Check the site for some more.

And yeah, email me (my nick @ bellsouth.net) your stats and I'll stick you on the team page. If we haven't talked yet, I'd like to talk first so we can figure out what you're doing.

Right now we're working on the First Campaign, the Fellowship of the Ring. I'm working on terrain for the first map, 3IC, and our first battle map, HD. We've got Grishnakh working on terrain for the fourth campaign map, TRGS, and Valdir Isandel working on the last campaign map, the Emyn Muil/Amon Hen.

Renugaid (bigmig) is going crazy with skins, and I believe Harlequin is helping. Can you verify, Harlequin? Who's modeling? Anybody know if Korgath is still around? Way back when he mentioned providing a hobbit hole and some hobbits.

Err, shortyXP is...hey shorty, what're you doing? :) Lots of gameplay ideas that's for sure, which is good. We'll need to hammer out a LOT of details when we get the terraining done.

Gotta' run for now.

Oh. On another note, I saw a preview of the War of the Ring's units and buildings. Geesh. Until now I had some cautious optimism about this game, but I really think it's gonna' stink after reading about it. Coming from a purist point of view, of course. I'm sure it'll be a really good RTS game, but it seems they're taking the movie route with this one. Going for graphics over gameplay, if you will. Saruman with a telekinetic attack? Hmm, I wonder where they got that from....

Thanks all, and take care.