TToR 3.2 Beta Testing Thread

Rightfield, here is a few bugs i found (combinded with the ones above)
Chaos
-Arch devils horror aura effects friendlys and buildings.
-Chaos idle-worker icon is acoylte
-Tower of the eye doesn't spawn blight.
-Balrog can't float on water and cannot fit inside boat, thus, chaos on the map "islands" cannot have their divine.
Also, i noticed that the Wood elves divine only takes up a single spot in the transport ship, while the trolls divine takes up 8, perhaps you should make both the elder ent and the balrog have 8 as well.
EDIT: I also noticed the tower of the eye gives you 10 food, i believe that is a bug.

Ok i think i sorta get it now. I'll try it out (nervous im gonna blow up my comp or something along the way...) :).

also, weaken the woodelves divinity's spell, the treant summoning thing is seriously overpowered compared to the others O_o, trolls still get WAY too much gold, i suggest you lower snotlings move speed so that even with advanced economics their only a move speed of 300 - 320, or they only get 6 - 8 gold, also the "summon gold mine ability" either needs to have a longer cooldown or less gold in the mine, bribe should not be free on the last level, id suggest 75 gold per food, 50 and 25, cause when its free its too powerful. Poisoned meat needs to not be perminant on level 3 or have a lower range, as its too easy to completly screw up woodelves. Also Poisoned Meat only works on Wood Elves, why dosnt it work on Chaos, Trolls (not sure about this yet) and Dwellers?

I realize there is a new patch out, so i'm betting alot of this stuff was touched on already, but then i'm sure some of it wasn't. A little of this is bugs report, a little is artistic critique, but the most important stuff is balance.

Since there is a new patch, i'll be much briefer than i had planned to be.

Art:

Chaos:
This stuff just blows you away. Most of their stuff is absolutely beautiful, nuf said. My only poke here would be at the animations for couple (i'm sure you know which ones ;) ) of your new models, make them a bit more... animated, hehe.

Swamp Dudes:
Currently my favorite race concept right now, excellent job with giving them a unique sense of character. Now before i say anything else, i want to say first, that this is awesome work you've done on this race. However i think a couple of the models need a little bit more smoothing out of features, some looke a bit boxy, the behemoth for example. Ah, and give the galapgos rider a bigger weapon, like a horsemen's flail or something. Or a bigger hammer would be good too. Also, a few of the skins could be givin a little bit more detail, its hard to say what it is that detracts from the race overall. This might sound uninformed and stupid (i'm no artist myself, i just know what looks good), but i think overall they are just to bright. The buidling models are AWESOME, but again, they are colored wierd, and i think it just happens to be the method of couloring you used for this race that may be what's bothering. Make sense? Sorry if i am toching on sensitive ground here. If left as is, it'd be absolutely fine. Its just i look at the chaos race, then the lizards, and i think, wow, if they were of similar style, i wouldn't play anything but the swamp guys.

Anway.

Wood Elf:
Excellent work! I have nothing to say here, really. All the dudes look good, i like the new models. Maybe two things to say. The warrior chick has some wierd animations, as does the divine, who also could benefit from a little more detail. But concept and execution are well done for this race.

Trolls:
A lot of recycled stuff, but that's fine. People expecting 2,000 new models out in a mod is really nuts, don't ya think? I think you folks have done an amazing job getting out as many quality, creative units so far. Extremely impressive. They want that much new stuff, they should be waiting on some company to make a new game... I digress... The concept is good, someone mentioned working on the building animations, eh wouldn't hurt, but they're just buildings after all. The guard tower is kinda lame, though. Go with the boulder tower before the poopy mur'loc hut :gsmile: . Anyway, i don't know why, but i absoulutely LOVE the ice priest troll hero. Is that a new model or some kind of merge? Its aweseome! Maybe hone the squig into less of a cartoony monster, and more of a terrifying beast, and the trolls are all set!

Ok enough of that picky stuff...

On to bugs, i won't say much here, because its hard to write down all the little stuff and not get bored to tears.

Basically, and believe me, i know how much this part of the mod sucks, but each tool tip and each hot key has to get checked over and over again, to make sure they all are cooperating. I'm guessing you have a lot of this under control already in the patch.

Certain skills don't work, or work wierd. Among them are the Triceratops rider meditation spell. Besides drains all his mana, and an autocast that does nothing, i don't know what the hell its supposed to do. Also, people have mentioned the mindflayers ultimate is messed up (i don't think it works even), and about the parasites. The arch demon's aura i think its works for everyone, not just the enemies. Or i don't know... My brother was talking about that one (don't worry we share it on one comp, no leakage). Ambush gets in the way of a BUNCH of skills. It just pops up sometimes too, really wierd. The swamp dweller's anticaster needs an animation for his dispel. Does it even work? I don't know, just used it dry, no one uses magic, lol.

Most of the skill malfunctions i ran into were hot key issues. With a lack of autocast abilities, this is HUGE, as we need to be able to whip out some spells before battles/during battles quickly or the casters are worthless. More on that later. Makes hero micro a pain too.

Ok, balance. Of course this is all just my opinion, but i think it would really improve the flow of the game. So far, excellent job. Between heroes, tier one units, and uber divines, you've done a decent job balancing such wierd elements. However what i would first of all do is scale down just about EVERY units DPS a tiny bit, and at the same time, scale up EVERY units hit points a decent amount. I'd say at least 25%, and about 50% for buildings. In addition to that extra HP boost, the support type units, which mostly at the moment are casters, and a few random siege engines, need a lot more hit points than they currently do. More on casters later... Finally, heroes need to need much more hit points at higher levels (it should be a pretty huge hike in the scale after level 4-6), and many skills should be rebalanced to scale up a tad at level 3.

The reasons for this? Typical games feel like this. Heroes are leveling up WAY faster i've noticed, so you either creep like nuts, or fight off a computer near by and skirmish like crazy and quickly get level four heroes. Then tier two has almost arrived. Tier one units are still pretty useful, which is a great thing. here you start to get tougher units, and some casters. But the casters aren't doin much, due to lack of survivability, damage output, low mana, and overall lower cost efficacy of most of them. Sure they have some amazing skills, especially after some rather slow and expensive upgrades, but thier micro investment is not balanced with how long they last in a fight. ESPECIALLY when tier three comes. Then its like "uh oh." EVERYTHING dies so fast its not even funny here. You have these big battles, where casters are the first things to go, followed by, most of the time, your hero. Then you have all these BIG tier three units beating the crap out of each other until one decides to stop wasting precious experience and runs away. THEN the ubers come out. This changes the game even more. Alot of units are now really not good choices as they are now one hit killed by the big divines (or left at less than, like, 30 HP). So games here are going back and forth with fights between only the REALLY big units. It doesn't help that the divines are all spell immune.

ITs still ok though, because you've managed to pull something off that is a GREAT thing that TFT fails to do :D :D :D !!!! You have games like tennis matches now, it goes back in forth, in hot big action battles where losing doesn't necessarily mean the game is over. Its actually pretty fun.

So what i'm thinking would make it better, is if the role of some of the weaker units could exist still in the tier three/four clash of the titans. The troll trapper dude with stasis trap is a perfect example. Problem is, he's dead before you can even click on him in a fight. Same deal with casters. For casters i propose a combination of at least a few of these things, but probably all of them:

1) More HP, and an armor type that survives a fight a little better. Unarmored is awful. Two weaknesses, no advantages.
2)Bigger mana pools and better mana regen, especially after upgrades. There are some REALLY cool skills and combos you can do with the casters if the unit itself was more usable (you know there are 5 stun type skills between fairy dragon, druid caster dude, and the jaina caster chick :ggani: ?!?!).
3) An actual combat role. There is no way TTOR can turn into caster craft like old RoC. First of all there is VERY little autocast (not necessarily a bad thing at all). Second, unlike in RoC, there are plenty of useful combat units to go around beating the crap out of the casters. So giving them a decent DPS wouldn't necessarily break them. Though, i'd hate to see meat shields get raped real bad, so perhaps could magic damage be balanced differently? Currently i don't see it on too many units besides casters. Perhaps making it also able to hit the godlies would help give them a role as countering something. Just some theorycrafting here...

I REALLY think this is an area that should be looked into.

Oh two more little things. Some of the skills are really underpar compared to some. A tiny buff to them would be nice. For example the venemous bit (no hotkey in this version, arg!) is awesome, while the spiders on death is really crappy. Another example is the good berry cooldown is MASSIVE. And perhaps this is just my opinion, but the chaos shadow caster is the worst hero in the game. What is banish for? Chaos guys only nuking hero is the beholder, and him with the shadow caster just doesn't seem like a good pair to me... I'll think of more as i play the next patch.

Last thing. Healing and mana regeneration in this mod is a little off for some reason. I don't know why, but it just doesn't "feel" right. What i was thinking, is that given the back and forth nature this game gives at times, was perhaps a global reduction in build time for most units might be an interesting idea. Since there are no bull**** statues hanging around or tons of healing options, it might help to get more replacements out to fill up the ranks of the wounded which are likely going to stay wounded. Mana regen on heroes is fine, but again, with the casters, i think it needs a little boost.

Oh, sorry this is the last thing. What the heck do the Lizards have a hron of nightfall or whatever for? And moonwells? Are they supposed to resemble NE, or is that stuff just not taken out yet? Honestly, i think the race can do just fine without wells for healing. Just give them a cool shop item like a heal scroll perhaps.

All for now, keep up th GREAT work, i'm having a lot of fun with this. Sorry if i hit things already addressed.

DOH! ONE LAST THING for this patch, i swear! Status of races and thier relation to others as i see it. OK so i can't stand chaos, they suck so bad early, and thier heroes aren't impressing me, so i don't know anyhting about them. To me they are the crappy race. Wood Elf is next, though pretty good and competitive, really tough in the early game,they can afford hundreds of dudes. Awesome skills scattered throughout thier tree... IF you have the micro to bust them all out before those units get wasted with thier small HP. Solid heroes, from what i could see. Swamp dudes are my favorite right now, i rank them second overall. The archers are AWESOME, but die quickly (as it should be). Early on they can compete, but you better tech quick, because thier early units suck. The divine caster is really neat. Trolls in my opinion are too good. They have GREAT meatshields, an autocast heal, the toughest divine, but worst of all are those brain crushers. I get 6 of them and my divine, its over. Focus fire with those is nasty. They have a jillion HP and when they die, oh well, they come back. Dunno, what you guys think?

sry guys but im gonna be gone all week, so i cant really test :(. I'll get back on it when i get back. I hope that at least all the information ive presented so far has been useful.

Ok, check news. The patch is out. I didn't get to dqeeze in resource trading though, since darky got exams.. for the next patch it will be there.

<TKATK> disentirigation hero spell doesnt have the level bonuses listed
<TKATK> the archdemons feet move much too slow,his head is still much too large
<TKATK> horror spells icon doesnt have borders
<TKATK> horros tooltip doesnt have its level bonuses listed
<TKATK> well,the insect doesnt have a level bonus list
<TKATK> The mindflayers Infests ANY unit at higher lv's than 1,it even infests your buildings(Whadda?where did my gold mine go?),it kills your own units on autocast
<TKATK> the worms voice is messed up,it uses a swamp dwellers voice,the kobold meele fighters,the cheap ones
<TKATK> RF:Is forked lightnin:A ray of pure darkness and so on?
<TKATK> lol,the beholder voice has a VROOM sound

1st update
<TKATK> the healing salves icon isnt right
<TKATK> gates of idram description: Level| 2:typo,no |
<TKATK> minute meteors description doesnt have level bonuses listed
<TKATK> why do salaman syriuss have mana?
<TKATK>Theres a transparent spot in the lizardmens interface while having the temple of ancients selected,at the top of the top buildin icons

I noticed two glichs, the archdevils ulitamate spell, blood letting cannot hit enemy units, also, the tower of the eye gives you 10 food along with the refinery's 20 food, if you meant to do that, that is unbalanced, if it was a mistake, then you know what to do. (EDIT: I'm glad you used those WOW icons, they rock.)

more bugs\improvements that havnt been said yet.

small bug i found recently is you can build shipyards on bridges, if u do this however any boats u build cant move off the bridge (unless ur dwellers)

building shipyards on bridges is unfixable i think, i may be wrong (i probably am)

hi, im kind of a newbie, but this game sounds relatively fun and i would be interested in beta testing it, just message me if you would be interested in having me test, btw if you guys want to play it online i have no life so i play warcraft 3 24/7

ure too late demonic, beta test signups are over.

<TKATK> hmm,the woodelf ai tried to cut trees
<TKATK> it looks a bit strange :S
<TKATK> sharpshooters are str?the ability strafe splits arrows,,,shouldnt strafing give you a chance to evade?
<TKATK> outposts icon is the old one
<TKATK> point blank shot is ranged??
<TKATK> sharpshooters range is a bit too low imo
<TKATK> did golems sleep?
<TKATK> point blank should be melle
<TKATK> there are no upgrades for the fairy draco,it has all the spells automatically,tho the description doesnt say so
<TKATK> azunai warriors 6th level ability doesnt have a description
<TKATK> desintirigate doesnt target organic creatures!!!!!!its the most useless spell out there now


The archdemons dont have teamcolor or heroglow

A update

<TKATK> Goodberies doesnt have level bonuses listed
<TKATK> cures hotkey doesnt work
<TKATK> you can learn lv3 enchanted gladius at lv4
<TKATK> enchanted gladius doesnt have a disabled icon
<TKATK> goodberries f10 icon has inverted borders,looks weird
<TKATK> you cant see invulni on the halfdraco hero
<TKATK> kleptomania skill has borders,even if its passive/aura

Well if you think about it, a shot at true point blank wouldnt really do much damage.