Bad Maps more Popular, Good Maps Gone to Waste!

I played a map called something like "MATH CHALLENGE!"

Well the host said he was a college professor in math and bs... He typed some cheat at start. You answer a ? right and footman walks to the end. His footman ran foreward fast, half the game was stuck between 2+1 and 5-2 (subtraction really gets em!)

And i still beat red, hjardest question being 40 divided by 10. sad.

This has been going on since WcIII came out. It wont change. Dont give in to it tho. We refuse to make maps that suck...period. If 90% of the ppl on b-net dont want to play our maps then fine. We make them for the other 10%. One thing you can do is instead of making a new concept map make a old concept better. Thats what we did with TD's. We made a TD that didnt suck, had lots of indepth strategy and was not kind to noobs. Did it become the most popular map?...no. Was it very popular amung the 10% who do care about map quality?....yes. From that we think it was a great success. We dont realy care what super noob # 100004 thinks about our map. We care what the people who enjoy quality maps think.

Dont give in....dont give them a inch. Just keep making good maps for the 10% of us who actualy enjoy them.

AMEN HIVEMIND!!! TOTALLY AGREE WITH U!

screw the n00bs, their just lil kids/immature lil... yeah
Blizzard made the WE so advanced for a reason

And if all else fails, we could always violently remove the remaining 90%. It's so easy to get away with homicide these days. :)

Hivemind, I'm totally agreed with you, I think its the reason we make good quality map, for the only 10% of players they want to have fun with quality. Map makers have to be proud of high quality map they made. I try to make good map and I don't care about the players they won't like it, because if some players like it and say ''Really nice map, the best I ever see''. We can be happy and continue to make more. I know not all person can love all of what the map makers doing, but just get the positive comment and don't take care about the others negative and no objective comment.
I know the map we doing won't stay forever on bnet, but the time the players like it is enough to think to a new high quality map and receive nice comment.


Sorry for my english if is bad.

And it's so easy to please the losers at least for the first five minutes.

- Balance your map, then multiply everything by 100. Instead of doing 11-17 damage to enemies with 120 hit points, make sure you do 1,100-1,700 damage to enemies with 12,000 hit points.

- Since you multiplied everything by 100, you will want your tomes to be 100 times stronger as well, right? Don't! Just put in 100 copies of the usual tomes.

- Add some godly items to the shops, but make sure they are so expensive that no one will actually be able to buy them. Name them after yourself.

Eg. Faradome's Helm of Pwnage, casts Charm All Enemies every 5 seconds, €500,000.

- Add a lot of spells and passives that don't really do much. If your unit has one major damage spell, give it three weak ones. This does not change the balance in any way, but the leet like to find the best spell and abuse the hell out of it.

Eg. if your warlock's Rain of Fire does 150 damage per wave and has a cooldown of 45 seconds, scale it up to 15,000 as mentioned above, and add three spells (labeled Infernal Intervention, Hammer of SAtaN, l33t_Faradome's Death Kill Slayer Blast) that do about 4,000 average damage, cost 200 mana and have a 250 second cooldown.

- Add fake passives that don't work. Make it hard to verify whether they work or not.

Eg. take your 1,500,000 hp hero with 7,000-12,000 damage and give him a passive that does nothing but says it gives 2% chance to do x100 damage. They'll never find out.

- Write your info text in all caps and rainbow colors!

Congratulations, you have just turned your balanced, fun map into a balanced, fun map that people will play!

Well, they may not replay it, and prefer f00tman w4rZ GODMODE!!!!!!11!!!!!!NO TIMERZ over it, but at least they will not quit on you after three minutes, which is of course the whole point. ;)

If thats what it takes we would prefer they just quit. Not to mention most of those suggestions would cause major lag and server split.

Remember popular doesnt mean better. Most computer gamers these days are console junkies that figured out the graphics are better on a computer. They have no clue what being a "gamer" is all about. The concept of out thinking the other guy to win is totally lost on them. To them the other guy has always been a bot. To beat the bot you need to find the right bug or exploit. They think its all about knowing which button to push. As long as its only one button and you just keep pressing it. Thats what they mistakenly call strategy.

We say leave them alone. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and it annoys the pig.

It is worth noting that many of theses so called "good" maps are good ideas with poor implementation. We have played many maps that would be great if they had a little more attention to detail. But as is they fall short of being a great map. Good for a couple plays until you find the bugs/imbalances then they are worthless.

Actually, it wasn't a serious suggestion. I was just pointing out that you would have to ruin your map to make the d00dz play it.

Unfortunately, "beating the bot" is what happens in regular Warcraft 3 play as well. Pick NE, buy a BM, get ten FDs and use Mana Flare. The result is that the majority of the crowd playing Warcraft 3 these days are so accustomed to cheese that the thought of having to think about their next move makes them quit out ten seconds into the game. Thanks, Blizzard.

I have witnessed the same thing happen in the Diablo 2 mod scene, where the majority of mods are uberdamage and uberhitpoint mods and the few attempts at balance mods are totally ignored. All thanks to the balance atrocity that was Lord of Destruction.

I'm making a map, and I won't bother in hosting it on bnet, cause I have some friends that will play it and enjoy it on LAN !

Ehh... you know, console games have multiplayer games too... and actually it's a lot more fun to play with your buds than some strangers through a cable line.

This thread is depressing...

Back on topic:
Well, not only do they play retarded maps, they also have retarded names. One of the worst would probably be "kail090x"... And someone named like 0010523050 or something..

I really don't feel like jumping in to this discussion right now...

Regards
Dead-Inside

Good point, but there's the matter of quality control. Surely you can agree that finding a Maul game on the list that's even remotely decent is nigh impossible. I think you may have a little too much faith in this community.

okAy, i made my own maul to piss ppl off...

red starts with a streaming damage 500100 damage "ANTI STUCK" tower.

They managed to loose on the 15hp level one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

I disagree with the fact that map protecting makes people not want to play a map, a lot of maps that were popular for a long time or are still popular are protected, Legacies was somewhat popular for a long time, and ToB is still popular, the update thing is a big thing i'll agree, unless the map is perfected, for example, people still play the final version of ZTD that was released a long time ago. People usually want updates because something is flawwed with the map, if that flaw is annoying or disrupting to the game and it isn't fixed, the map will die out.

I do agree with the fact that the people on battle.net are 90% idiots, i know that just from my gaming experience... examples coming

The tooltip says in colored, capped text that the unit only attacks a very small range of units, still the newbies only look long enough to notice that its a very expensive unit, and they think that to always mean thats the unit is good, the end result is the person wasting all thier money on massing a unit that only attacks 3 specific units in the game. Obviously they get beat up incredibly, and usually say something similar to this:

newbie: Wth! Its not attacking anything!
Me: Thats because it only attacks "x unit", "y unit", or "z unit". Did you even bother to read the tooltip for a unit that you're spending all your money on?
Newbie: No.
*time passes and newbie realizes that the money he spent on a specialty unit was used by others to buy units that are actually ment to be massed
Newbie: This map sucks! *Leaves

Its quite amusing when this happens, you're right though that wc3 has conviced them that a unit that costs a lot is always the best unit in the game...

Their insults are sad too, i got a lot of fun actually still somewhat using their own ideas against them :)

You guys should try out this whever possible...

Person: You're gay
Me: I'm sure you'd want me to be

3 things can happen after you try this
A) The person will repeat his insult in the thinking that it will work better the second time they say it
B) The person has no clue what you just said and will try to cover that fact up by unleashing a string of profanities at you, for added enjoymenet turn around as many of these as possible
C) The person is caught completly off gaurd that their all purpose insult was ineffective, they realize that they've never had to think of a followup other than swear words and different ways of saying that you are gay. They quickly leave the game with their broken ego's

While I would agree that maps can be less interesting when map-makers stop supporting the updates, that doesn't necessarily mean that unprotected maps are inherently more popular. What it really says is that as a map-maker you have to periodically update your map, listen to the people who make good points about your maps potential flaws, and peroidically revamp some of the old things your maps have with new ideas.

If you eventually decide that you aren't going to bother supporting the map and it's subsequent updates - that's the point where you should consider unprotecting it. If you no longer care to improve it, maybe someone else would.

If it matters to the discussion, Wintermaul didn't necessarily intend to leave his map unprotected. If anyone bothered with his version 1.2 (or whatever the last one was) you would notice that he did protect that version. While the subsequent 'versions' of the map became popular, if anything they also became much worse. More bugs, poorer quality/balance, and while as a group they may have become more popular, individual maps became more trite, less interesting, and generally less respected... to the point where no good map-maker thinks very much of a map with a "maul" suffix, even if the foolish map-maker didn't really edit Duke Wintermaul's map... but just can't tell the difference between the word "maul" and the word "tower defense".

The lesson map-maker's should take away from it is that you should bother to maintain your maps - not that you should leave them unprotected.