[Seraph] skill set!

08-31-2008, 04:57 AM

Hidden information:

This is the next in the lineup of new Neutral Tavern heroes, a polar opposite of the last! Please welcome, the Seraph! Holy championer of light and goodness and all things Nike!

This heroine needs some good proper names, 2 more abilities (including an Ultimate), decision on Agility vs. Intelligence, and... I think that's all. Pyrogasm and General_Frank, this is your chance to see this baby finished!

((NOTE: Since I am unable to code JASS, and somewhat unwilling to include it, I would prefer if any and all help would take that into consideration (i.e., some types of spells are not doable). For reference, variable arrays and Custom Values are available for use.))

~~~

	Seraph Neutral Melee Agility/Intelligence? hero In times of great peril, the supplicants of the Holy Light may resort to desperate measures. After the cleansing and preparation of the highest-ranking female of their order, the chosen one is channeled with the purity of the Light. This intense ritual imbues the one with power, transforming her into the very Avatar of Light itself. Upon empowerment, this stalwart warrior against the powers of darkness glides out across the land, infusing all she meets with the Holy Light and healing plague and sickness wherever she may go. In times of war, she even barters out her services to the highest paying army; as long as she is healing, she is willing.

Proper Names: Nike, Aeres, Zephyra, Vaelin, Sionene, Mercuri, Gloria (Morning Glory?), Ailione, (Starbright?), ...

(Credits to General_Frank for his Seraph model resource)

Seraph Spells:

	1. Salvation - Opens a Path of Light to the target area/unit, which the Seraph follows instantaneously. Units at the target area are healed (over time/stacks?). Level X - Affects units in an X-sized area healing them for Y damage (over Z seconds??).
	2. Solar Armor - Constantly charges the Angel with energy that can be stored (up to a certain cap??) and released when desired. When released, allied units around the caster are healed for as much health as was stored. Can be auto-cast to heal over time or can be stored for large heals. - Charges half as quickly at night. (??) - Rather short cooldown (1.5 seconds or so). Level X - Charges Y HP per second; can store up to Z HP max. (Right-click to Auto-cast)
	3. [name] - [description]
	U. [name] - [description]

~~~

This is the extent of the conversation on this hero, including Pyro's original thoughts:

Hidden information:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrogasm

Awright... General Frank and I have an idea. The model is starting to become a reality, but as of right now it really just consists of a cannibalized Demonhunter model with Blademaster, Sorceress, and Shaman animations. If he wants to post an WIPs of it, then I'll let him do so in the artist thread.

As for the hero itself, here's what we've got (it's a female hero):

Table:

Hero Type:	Arch-Angel
Focus on Battlefield:	Being extra mobile and swiftly moving around on the battlefield. The general concept here is that you constantly (or at least most of the time) keep her on the move supporting multiple troops at a time, yet she is not able to do much in the way of keeping a specific single unit alive with masses of heals.
Strengths	- Very mobile - Mobile melee attackers are rare - Probably an agility hero - Supports troops sufficiently - Acceptable regular-attacking capabilities
Weaknesses	- Requires a fair amount of troops at a time to be effective - Limited mana pool - If she gets stunned she's screwed - Probably would need to be combined with a tank hero for full effectiveness - Not exactly a hero-killer; pretty defensive hero
Abilities
Solar Armor	- Constantly charges the Angel with energy that can be stored (up to a certain cap) and released when desired. When released, allied units around the caster are healed for as much health as was stored. Can be auto-cast to heal over time or can be stored for large heals. - Charges half as quickly at night. - Rather short cooldown (1.5 seconds or so). Level X - Charges Y HP per second; can store up to Z HP max. (Right-click to Auto-cast)
Telezap	- Teleports the Arch-Angel to target unit. The amounts of allied units near the Angel both before and after teleporting are compared, and units in the more highly concentrated area are healed over time. - This effect stacks. Level X - Affects units in an X-sized area healing them for Y damage over Z seconds.
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Maybe she'll be an Intelligence hero instead; I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulla

For an ultimate perhaps
Angel's Grace Buffs all nearby friendly units, augmenting them in some form, damage,armor,regen??
Could also, if they die a % chance the'll be ressurected, or a spirit is raised from the body or all nearby friendly units get healed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erwtenpeller

Not liking the idea of a female Arch-Angel too much, When i hear arch angel i want a blonde dude or a dude in classical armor with a big burning sword, not some chick. Any other kind of angel would be fine. An arch-angel might also be a bit too stong a diety to be a hero-for-hire really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrogasm
Abilities
Solar Armor - Constantly charges the Angel with energy that can be stored (up to a certain cap) and released when desired. When released, allied units around the caster are healed for as much health as was stored. Can be auto-cast to heal over time or can be stored for large heals.
- Charges half as quickly at night.
- Rather short cooldown (1.5 seconds or so).

Level X - Charges Y HP per second; can store up to Z HP max. (Right-click to Auto-cast)

Cool idea, but you'll need some way to tell how big the charge is that you've build up. Does it cost any mana to cast? It would make it a lightly more interesting mechanic if there was a mana cost involved so you can spam it to qucikly keep your emy alive with short but swift heals, but draining your mana pool faster, or save up for bigger heals and save your mana.

I also like chriz' suggestion, but i think its a bit too much considering the parameters of the contest.

Quote:
Telezap - Teleports the Arch-Angel to target unit. The amounts of allied units near the Angel both before and after teleporting are compared, and units in the more highly concentrated area are healed over time.
- This effect stacks.

Level X - Affects units in an X-sized area healing them for Y damage over Z seconds.

Horrible and random mechanic. Port to a unit, fine. But the healing of the biggest group is bollocks. Too random and cant really be counted upon. It also makes absolutely no sense name-wise for the ability to have a healing effect.

Being mobile and healing units are two verry diffrent things that are used in diffrent situations. The two are hardly compatable. If you really want to have something like that, make it like a saving abiliy that ports to a unit and then heals that unit (with a possible AoE). That makes sense, that fits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrogasm

Quote:
Originally Posted by erwtenpeller
Not liking the idea of a female Arch-Angel too much, When i hear arch angel i want a blonde dude or a dude in classical armor with a big burning sword, not some chick. Any other kind of angel would be fine. An arch-angel might also be a bit too stong a diety to be a hero-for-hire really.

Maybe "Seraphim" is a better name; it does sound less manly and less about all that Destroyer of Satan jazz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erwtenpeller
Horrible and random mechanic. Port to a unit, fine. But the healing of the biggest group is bollocks. Too random and cant really be counted upon. It also makes absolutely no sense name-wise for the ability to have a healing effect.

Being mobile and healing units are two verry diffrent things that are used in diffrent situations. The two are hardly compatable. If you really want to have something like that, make it like a saving abiliy that ports to a unit and then heals that unit (with a possible AoE). That makes sense, that fits.

Well, the general concept was that the spell would be useful whether or or not you were jumping into the fray or leaving it, for whatever reasons. If you are trying to escape your hero's imminent death by porting out of combat, then the units where you just left will get healed; if your entering combat or moving around on the battlefield, you'll heal the units near where you're jumping to.

My thought behind the spell was that it would encourage you to keep moving around to the areas of more units, as that's what this spell is about. Originally I thought of what you suggested (healing the unit you teleported to), but then I figured that it would be more useful the other way. I guess my opinion is not shared :P

As for the name, I know it doesn't fit, and once the inspiration comes it'll have a name :) 'till then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by erwtenpeller
Cool idea, but you'll need some way to tell how big the charge is that you've build up. Does it cost any mana to cast? It would make it a lightly more interesting mechanic if there was a mana cost involved so you can spam it to qucikly keep your emy alive with short but swift heals, but draining your mana pool faster, or save up for bigger heals and save your mana.

To visually represent how much was stored, I was thinking of using some wisp-like special effect attached to the hero's shoulder that would grow in size as more health was collected. Possibly it would turn a slightly different color once it was capped.

As for the mana cost, I hadn't really considered what it would be, but I suppose I was planning on something small-ish. However, now that you mention it, a variable mana cost might be quite interesting. And, as far as I know, it is possible to do with Spirit Touch. Or at least I think I read so somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anitarf

Why not have the ability heal units both where the hero teleports from and where it teleports to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by erwtenpeller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrogasm
Maybe "Seraphim" is a better name; it does sound less manly and less about all that Destroyer of Satan jazz.

That is cooler, yes. I dont know how the rules are concerning lore though-- There is no satan in the warcraft universe.

Quote:
Well, the general concept was that the spell would be useful whether or or not you were jumping into the fray or leaving it, for whatever reasons. If you are trying to escape your hero's imminent death by porting out of combat, then the units where you just left will get healed; if your entering combat or moving around on the battlefield, you'll heal the units near where you're jumping to.

My thought behind the spell was that it would encourage you to keep moving around to the areas of more units, as that's what this spell is about. Originally I thought of what you suggested (healing the unit you teleported to), but then I figured that it would be more useful the other way. I guess my opinion is not shared :P

Interesting theory, but i think its too far out, too conditional to really work. What if you warp out of battle to a unit in your base where you've just build some additional units, making them the biggest group? The mechanic fails becouse it has a poorly controllable condition to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitarf
Why not have the ability heal units both where the hero teleports from and where it teleports to?

I think this is a verry valid suggestion. It'd be nice if the mechanic would somehow be thematically explained too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
To visually represent how much was stored, I was thinking of using some wisp-like special effect attached to the hero's shoulder that would grow in size as more health was collected. Possibly it would turn a slightly different color once it was capped.

As for the mana cost, I hadn't really considered what it would be, but I suppose I was planning on something small-ish. However, now that you mention it, a variable mana cost might be quite interesting. And, as far as I know, it is possible to do with Spirit Touch. Or at least I think I read so somewhere.

I never mentioned a variable mana cost, i mentioned a stationary mana cost. I was trying to explain that having a small mana cost adds an interesting twist to the fact, becouse you've got a choice going on: Heal my army quick for a higher mana cost, or risk more, wait for a bigger heal, but save mana making it a better choice in the long run.

I believe that's all.

Hidden information:

Current Ability Ideas List:

"Healing Aura" - MCV
Valiant Soul - Ashkati
Armor of Faith - Ashkati
Divine Legions - Ashkati
Selfless - Ashkati
"Holy Blade" - Kyrbi0
"Tears of the Light" - Kyrbi0
Angel's Grace - Kyrbi0
Anthem - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Blessing - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Echoing Courage - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Valor - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Pacifism - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Justice - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Aurora - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Glisten - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Warmth - Tide-Arc Ephemera
Perserverance - Tide-Arc Ephemera

=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated!

Attached Images

	Seraph.JPG (16.6 KB)
	BTNSeraph.JPG (6.5 KB)

08-31-2008, 09:27 PM	#2
MCV	A Healing Aura? Not very original, but would fit the theme and purpose of the hero.

08-31-2008, 09:56 PM

Askhati

Valiant Soul: target unit has increased health regen and MS. If the unit dies while carrying the Valiant Soul buff, it releases a wave of dispelling energy (like Wisp suicide) into the surroundings. Should be auto-cast, like Inner Fire.

Armor of Faith: passive armor ability. Hero has increased magic resistance per level (runed bracers), as well as reflecting an enemy spell once every (x) seconds (amulet of spell shield).

Divine Legions: cast buff on target friendly. Whenever buffed unit kills an enemy unit, it has a % chance to summon a temporary Divine Legionnaire unit to assist it in combat.

Selfless: cast buff on target friendly. When buffed unit is killed, its killer has a % chance of being converted to your side.

09-01-2008, 07:46 AM

Pyrogasm

Oooh. Gotta do something about the name "Telezap". Like seriously. I only gave it that name because I couldn't think of anything else at the time, and that is a horrible name for that skill...

Upon reflection, I think Solar Armor should have a static mana cost because that would be a more interesting option as erwt said in his last post. As for the visuals, though, I can't think of a way for it to be possible to change the size of an attached model dynamically. I mean, sure, you could have a model for 0%-49% charged, a larger second model for 50%-99% charged, and a third differently-colored but still larger model for being 100% charged, but then you're looking at a fair few imports.

Perhaps try using Pyritie's Caster Hand Attachments.

Edit: I don't have a problem with you using our ideas, but I'm not sure about the model (if you're planning on making this public) because I don't know if General_Frank officially 'released' it. By-the-way, WTF is up with the link on "Seraph" anyway?

09-01-2008, 01:46 PM

Kyrbi0

Hidden information:

@MCV - I thought that, too. In fact, I found a great (i.e. non-triggered and simple) spell recently; just a reverse Phoenix Fire. That way, friendly units around the Seraph will constantly be "hit with lightbeams" that focus and heal them. Not much, but whenever they lose the buff, the beams hit them again (think PF's targetting system).
The thing is, I was thinking that 3+ healing spells, even on a Hero focused on movement and Healing, seems like too much. Anyone else? Maybe called "Spirituality"?

@Ashkati - I seem to recall you being 'off-line' for a week... But whatever, I welcome your thoughts:

I like Valiant Soul. Anyone think a single-target fits, though?
Divine Legions and Selfless are good, but too similar to both be on.
Armor of Faith sounds nice, but I'm not sure armor fits the hero-role.

Hidden information:

@Pyro -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrogasm

Edit: I don't have a problem with you using our ideas, but I'm not sure about the model (if you're planning on making this public) because I don't know if General_Frank officially 'released' it. By-the-way, WTF is up with the link on "Seraph" anyway?

It's alright; I just have to ask General_Frank (belatedly...) for permission to fix the face (it was long and horse-like, so I squeezed the chin up a bit (Chin up, m'lady!)). Also, GF has uploaded it (on THW); I fixed the link. I was just too rushed when I made the thread. :P

*Telezap* - Well, ok. The problem is, I am pretty non-l33t when it comes to triggering. I think I can get something like Solar Armor to work; perhaps using Custom Value to store the seconds, which is translated to bigger and bigger heals (Heal = 30 x Custom Value?). However, I'm pretty sure that using hand attachments to show power (and especially dynamically) is out of my field. Unless the "dynamic"ness can be triggered in concert with Custom Value... Thoughts?

09-01-2008, 06:37 PM

Pyrogasm

Triggered in concert with Custom Value is entirely possible.

And 'telezap' would not be that hard (Base the spell off of Blink):

Trigger:

Events

Unit - A unit starts the effect of an ability

Conditions

(Ability being cast) equal to Telezap

Actions

Set TempPoint = (Target point of ability being cast)

Custom script: set bj_wantDestroyGroup = true

Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units within 250.00 of TempPoint matching ((Matching Unit) is an enemy of (Owner of (Triggering Unit)))) and do (Actions)

Loop - Actions

Unit - Set Life of (Picked Unit) to (Life of (Picked Unit) + (50.00 x Real(Level of (Telezap) for (Triggering Unit))))

Special Effect - Create a special effect attached to the Chest of (Picked Unit) using <Model>

Special Effect - Destroy (Last created special effect)

Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_TempPoint)

Edit: I think Selfless and Valiant Soul are really neat ideas, actually... but the problem is that they go against the hero's concept: if she is supposed to be healing and keeping people alive, isn't it odd for her to have things that activate when units die?

Plus 4 active spells is too much; I think she needs a passive or something. Especially because she might not even be an intelligence hero.

09-01-2008, 07:50 PM

Askhati

The ideas I listed aren't all meant to be used, they were just some possibilities I came up with while waiting for the reply page to load.

The "Valiant Soul" and "Selfless" abilities are actually interesting alternative spells for a healer, methinks - you try to keep your troops alive through healing, but if they are on the brink of death and facing annihilation, you enchant them so that their deaths are not in vain. Sortof like how a Necromancer turns his fallen troops into skeleton units again.

"Divine Legions" should be AoE, like Roar. Could be a pretty devastating ultimate, if the summoning % is high-ish.

"Armor of Faith" is passive, like the Crypt Lord's carapace ability.

09-01-2008, 09:06 PM

Kyrbi0

@Pyro - Lol, actually, I was pretty solid on triggering "Telezap". I meant triggering the Solar Armor; will it require a periodic trigger of 1 second, adding Custom Value every second, then a trigger counting it up and removing it if the heal is used, and healing in an area based on the Custom Value? (actually, that sounds pretty solid, although I'm loath to use Periodic Timers unnecessarily).

And I agree; the abilities you posted are great, Ashkati, but don't fit with the hero theme and (NEWLY-ADDED!!!^^) flavor text. Hmm...

Two thoughts for passive abilities:
- Holy Blade (passive): (lame name, I know). But basically, the Seraph has a X% chance to strike an enemy with holy fervor, releasing the Light from her blade and healing all nearby friendly units for X hp.
//Although it's another Heal spell, it's passive, and fits well with her nice Blademaster-y Attack Slam animation.
- Tears of the Light (passive?): (another possible passive). Gives the Hero a passive boost to (Movespeed? Attack Speed? Damage? Armor? HP/Mana Regen? etc). Upon death, however, even the heavens mourn for her, as the Light pours it's holy wrath down upon the accursed murderers.
(Basically, enemies that remained in the area-of-death would be bombarded with Light-bolts (not Starfall))

--EDIT1--

Does anyone mind if I make these topics concurrently? Like, I have a few more heroes to work on, and now that I have a template for the first post, it should be easy enough to pop these out... But perhaps you guys want a breather between idea-fests?

--EDIT2--

Also, I rather like this as an ultimate (non-passive):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulla

- Angel's Grace (ultimate): Fills all nearby friendly units with the purified light, boosting their fortitude** dramatically. Even if they fall in battle, their empowered outer husk would ***

**(HP, HP Regen, MS, AS, Armor: any or all of the above; preferably based on Inner Fire)
***(Resurrect once - X% chance to Resurrect - Summons a Spirit of the Light - Heals nearby friendly units)

~~~

Although again, all but one (Holy Blade) of those abilities have a basis in death, which defeats her whole shtick (although they have some secondary effect as well...). If anything, I say she needs something based on Movespeed; either a boost (temporary buff or permanent passive), or a Heal-Over-Time based on the distance moved (eww, sounds AoSish)... etc.

09-02-2008, 01:06 AM	#9
Pyrogasm	Yeah, I wouldn't do any "based on the distance moved" stuff.

09-02-2008, 01:15 AM	#10
Kyrbi0	No. But... Any other thoughts?

09-02-2008, 01:22 AM

#11

Tide-Arc Ephemera

Well I have a bunch of random ideas, whether you like them or not isn't my choice:

Anthem - Channeling, all damage dealt to other nearby units is reduced by Y% and the rest is redistributed amongst all other units under Anthem.

Blessing - Blesses nearby units. The next X attacks placed upon them are reflected.

Echoing Courage Lets loose a bright light that allows the Seraph to heal nearby units equal to damage it deals for X seconds.

In these next spells, weakest means has least health.
Valor - Passive. The Seraph has an X% chance to heal the weakest nearby unit for that much damage.

Pacifism - Passive. The weakest nearby non-hero enemy will move 30% slower and attack 50% slower.

Justice - Passive. The X weakest nearby allied units will deal a percentage of damage equal to the percentage their missing.

09-05-2008, 06:59 PM

#12

Kyrbi0

Alrighty, it's been almost a week, and I'm not really sure I should post a 3rd [Hero Skillset] topic until the first two are more finalized. So...

~~~

Should the Seraph be Agility or Intelligence?
What should her Third and Ultimate abilities be?
Any other Proper Names you guys can come up with, or feedback on the existing ones?
What should "Telezap" be called?
"Telezap" heals units in an AoE. Should it do so in both the target area and the leaving area, or only the target area?

Basically, ~BUMP~. :P

09-05-2008, 10:42 PM

#13

Tide-Arc Ephemera

Are you blind? I just gave you some suggestions. Angels may be noble but not always wise - I'd make it intelligence.

The third ability should be some sort of passive ability unless the other abilities have reasonably long cool down/mana cost.

Telezap could be called "Salvation" or something that has something to do with rescuing... like Rescue if you want. It should only affect the target area, otherwise you would just use short-blink to double heal things.

09-06-2008, 03:37 AM

#14

Kyrbi0

Blind? No... I wear glasses, though; I'm a bit short-sighted. :P
---
I saw your suggestions but none of them jumped out at me. Besides, I'd rather leave it up to the consensus of greater, more creative minds then mine; I always seem to make mediocre skillsets. Hence the public topic; I'm shooting for several people giving input or feedback. But meh, Pyro, Ashkati, and you are good too. :P

Intelligence... duly noted.

Third ability will definitely = a Passive. The only problem is, which one? The Healing Aura, the %Heal-AoE-on-Attack, the Boost+Retribution-on-Death, or one of yours?? Hence the question; "what should 3rd be?".

Ooh... I kinda like "Salvation". Perhaps not "zippy" enough for a teleport, but fits the theme of both hero and ability... I'll set it to "Salvation" unless someone argues otherwise. :P Thanks.
**And yeah, good point about the double-heal; we'll just make it heal at the Target AoE. Even though we could balance a double-heal with just a lower heal-amount...

--EDIT--

Just realized, there's still some confusion with the existing abilities :/.

Salvation: Should it do a single burst-heal at the target AoE? Or cast an AoE "healing salve" (Heal-over-Time)? Or even (following with the "Path of Light" idea), leave a shining pillar of light that Heals (over time) units inside of it?

Solar Armor: Same thing; should this heal all at once, or over time (and if over-time, should it stack?) Etc.

09-06-2008, 04:15 AM

#15

Tide-Arc Ephemera

Over time heals are generally useless unless they're acute enough to offset incoming damage.
_____

Aurora - Passive. Nearby units are shined upon by an aurora, healing them for X hit points per second. During the day, it heals for Y instead.

Glisten - Passive. Increases hit point regeneration of this hero by X and the weakest (least hit points) nearby allied unit will also get healed for that much.

Warmth - Passive. During the day, nearby living units get X% extra regeneration.

Perseverance - Passive. Whenever an enemy spell is cast, nearby units are healed for X% of its mana cost.