Lightning Elemental Hero Discussion

So I (finally) got this working. Took me a couple hours, and I'm running on empty (sleep-wise). So no "power-leveling" system for you!

@Jigrael: Hope you like it. :P

http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=102792

I won't be looking at that until I find the time to make my own.

How dare you?

I can't risk being biased, now can I? :)

My Pun-Senses... are TINGLING!...

I don't like kyrbio's version... too simple and too weak, no synergy between abilities plus the fact that it's melee hero, makes this character the less desirable in a game. the ultimate is the ugliest IMO, a mana expensive channeling single target damage ability, makes this unit totally vulnerable.

You can do a better set of abilities, seriously. or at least balance them.

EDIT: I've added a simple level up code. Just add to the map an archon in the middle of the map and replace the "Archon 0051" by the proper variable unit name.

lol
Well I tested it. I liked to see my model used finally XD
I see you used the first fx too, looks awesome really.

But there some things that bothered me, I list them:

-First of all, Call Thunder desperatelly needs a louder sound.
-Overload damages the enemies BEFORE the animation plays, so it seems weird
-Supercharge, well I used it near a wisp and the effect attached to it. Also it could use some sound when you activate it.
-The ultimate seems kinda slow-weak-( I think I need to add a sound to the looping animation there.)
-I believe the attack stats are too low for a str hero.

@Moyack:
1. Ouch.

2. Boy, that's some great feedback there. It's too bad I didn't have, say, a topic dedicated to the construction and balancing of this hero. Located here. I know, confusing name, hard to find. My apologies. :/

Seriously, if it is "so bad" then why didn't you speak up earlier? It's been here for weeks.

Moreover, while I respect the work you've done in your PoC map, might I add that erwtenpeller and Dusk came up with (partially) the abilities? Or at least said "yeah" to them? If I'm not mistaken (perhaps I took their silence wrongly, eh, Dusk?).

My attempt was to make melee-playable and melee-fitting heroes. Most of the time, they don't have overly complicated abilities. Like, dare I say, some of your PoC hero abilities.
(Now of course, you were making an altered melee, so it's a different situation for you. But while compared to yours, mine are "boring", they are perfectly fine for a melee-game).

There is synergy. Read the role (on the thread). He's a Blitzkrieg hero. So he rushes in (Supercharge), deals lots of damage in a relatively short amount of time (Call Thunder, Overcharge for AoE damage after multiple attacks). Also, with a bit of tweaking, Electrocution can be made more "correctly", but the idea is still there; massive DoT that "disables" both caster and target, ripping through single units with ease (that and Call Thunder make his in-game description (did you read that?) of "good at taking care of single units" fit quite well, if I'm not mistaken).

Most importantly, don't take everything at face value. Ok, so Electrocution seems "too weak". That can be tweaked. Everything is up for balance, dude. Especially the hero attributes; I seriously want somebody to write up a tutorial for that. I am in no way a guru of Attributes.


@Jigrael:
1. I believe (since it uses just Monsoon thunder-sfx), I can't really mess with the sound. Besides, even with triggers, is there a good "crack of lightning" sound? Everything I can remember just sounds like "rolling thunder".

2. Hmm... Yeah, I had problems with the Morph animation and the timing of the ability. I'm not totally pleased with it, but I was wanting to just get it out there (instead of sitting on it for a few more days). Any suggestions (from anyone)?

3. Yes... That's the point. It's an activated aura; an AoE Movespeed boost for him and all nearby units. In order to show that, I just put the SFX2 model on their chest (looks cool en-masse).
Do you (or anyone else) think it should just be the regular "blue ring" aura sfx on the origin?

4. Yeah, that would be cool... Like the Stasis Ward summon-sound, but over and over... (not sure if that's possible).
But again, it can be tweaked. If 100 dps isn't enough, make it 200. I just wanted to set roughly-balanced values that wouldn't be overly-strong nor overly-weak.

5. Meh, attributes (as aforementioned) are not necessarily my forte.

6. I know you added an "omnilight" thing, or whatever... I'm not sure that is the problem, but if you look at the area around the "Lightning Elemental" (esp. at night), it's flickering super-fast, like a strobe light. I'm sure you meant well, but unless that can fixed (to what? >_>...), I'd ask you to remove it; it's kinda visually jarring. Like epileptic-seizure-making. :P

I totally agree with u, the omni light thing, I liked it at first but now it just seems SO anoying, and it adds like 20 kb( think) to the model!!! Im going to upload a no-omni-light vertion of the model.

The looping sound is no deal, the animation is looping so Ill just trigger the sound and thats all, itll loop with the anim.

You get way too defensive, Kyrbi0, just take it with a grain of salt. Not every user reads every forum religiously, so don't cry to moyack about him not reading the other topic (that was littered with the same kind of arguments you just made, to boot). You should cherish this kind of feedback, not whine that you didn't get it sooner.

Also, people have every right to complain about balance. If you're balancing to melee standards and fail at it, that is a problem with your work, not merely up to 'tweaks' as you claim.

@Jigrael:
1. *whew* Glad you agree.
2. Cool!

@Rising_Dusk:
You're right; I was being too defensive.
My only alibi was that, of any other hero, this was the first trying out "your" method (what I refer to as "the right way" :P) of picking a role, then making abilities for it. So while they might not be as flashy or cool-looking as what I originally had planned, his abilities actually have a planned synergy.

Also, I'm all up for constructive criticism. Like "boy, you're abilities were well-planned out, but he was too weak overall". Or "those attributes are messed up!! Might I suggest ____...". Like that. Not "this hero is lame, I don't like the entire design Kyrbi; especially X and Y, those are very ____" :/

Regardless:

1. Actually, the abilities do synergize.
2. Sorry, it's melee both because Jigrael originally modeled it that way, and because I think it's an interesting twist on a generalized "norm".
3. So if the Ultimate is "ugly", what do you suggest? I am most likely keeping it; do you think lowered mana cost, or higher damage output?
4. Alright, so what do you suggest (balance-wise)? Specifically. Call Thunder = too powerful/weak? Supercharge lvl 3 = too fast/slow? Overload = too 'not-working-right'?


Please, give me some actual feedback; not just "I hate this and it's stupid".

The best advice I can give you right now is to give you an example. And for that, you'll just have to wait, sorry.

Well, I can wait. But what you do will (most likely) be quite different from what I did. I don't really want to retrofit this hero.

What I would like is to make changes to the hero without fundamentally altering the hero.

TBH, Kyrb, the Archon's Ultimate needs to be stronger, IMO ~ Not too much mind you, just enough to kill a strong unit in a 2nd level creep camp (eg, the large dragon turtles)

Now that's constructive criticism. Thank you.