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(11) Invasion of MasterHaosis

02-13-2009, 04:22 AM#1
Alexis_Septimus
Status

Map Status - Open Source
Current Version - 1.09

Description

A nice and cute mini-game created to dedicated to THW ex-moderator MasterHaosis with each match duration last for 10 minutes and up to 5 mode available.

Mission Objective

Top Gun - Kill as many Haosis as possible to rack up the highest score before times run out.

Spawn Control - Kill all Haosis before they flood the entire map until the time limit expired. If there is 100 Haosis at the map before the time expired, the game is over.

Challenge Ralle - Kill as many Haosis as possible to get a score higher than Ralle (Computer AI) before time limit expired. If Ralle get the highest score after time expired, all player defeat.

The Target- Kill as many Haosis as possible and reach a score of 2,000 before time runs out.

Angel Hunt- Find and kill as many Angel Haosis as possible within 10 minutes, the player with the top score after time expired will win the match.

Credit

Terrain Editor

FrIkY

Language Editor

CyberSoft
DonDustin
3rgytr54

Icon

Elenai
Freezer
Mc !
BlackDoom
OgeRfaCes
communist_orc
CRAZYRUSSIAN
The_Avenger's_Return
Juice_F
BlackRockClan
X.e.r.e.X
WILLTHEALLMIGHTY
HappyTauren

Model

Elenai
Mechanical Man
Ket
Chriz.
Kitabatake
Daelin
communist_orc
Zap
Callahan
Tranquil
JetFangInferno
General Frank
Lord_T

Spell

SSDBZ
flyfightflea
xxdingo93xx

Loading Screen & Preview

TheDivineBoss
General Frank

Creep Data

Spammadar

Hp : 10
Ability : Wander
Gold Drop : 1
Spawn Rate : 5 unit every 3 seconds

Rep Parites

Hp : 150
Ability : Shadow Strike, Envenomed Weapons, Disease Cloud & Wander
Gold Drop : 5
Spawn Rate : 3 unit every 10 seconds

Chat Mod Status

Hp : 300
Ability : Firebolt, Immolation, Breath of Fore & Wander
Gold Drop : 10
Spawn Rate : 3 unit every 31 seconds

Haosis Virus

Hp : 500
Ability : Breath of Frost, Frost Nova, Frost Bolt, Curse, Feedback, Frost Attack & Wander
Gold Drop : 25
Spawn Rate : 3 unit every 59 seconds

Emperor Haosis

Hp : 2000
Ability : Finger of Death, Divine Shield, War Stomp, Evasion, Cleaving Attack & Wander
Gold Drop : 50
Spawn Rate : 1 unit every 91 seconds

Angel Haosis (Angel Hunt event only)

Hp : 5000
Ability : War Stomp, Evasion, Cleaving Attack & Wonder
Gold Drop : 500
Spawn Rate : 1 unit every 180 seconds

~FAQ~

Q : Is this map contain AI?
A : Yes, it contain AI which varied from Easy, Normal and Insane difficulty. They had been set to be as hard as possible even at Easy. the only AI you cannot select the difficulty of it would be Ralle AI (Available at Challenge Ralle event only).

Q : Is this map balance?
A : Yes, this map have been tested lot's of time by myself to ensure every single creep was well balance, item price was reasonable and so on.

Q : If this map was balance, why do Emperor Haosis & Angel Haosis seems to be overpowered?
A : No, they ain't overpowered. Infact, they are rather well balance unit. The main reason why they seen to be overpowered is because they are the rarest unit in this mini-games.

Also, due to the value and gold rate they provided; it makes them the main target of every player. High hp of the unit is to prevent it from being kill easily and to encourage user to learn how to KS "Kill Steal" in order to rack up their point at Top Gun Event.

Emperor Haosis high damage which capable to kill unit in within 5-6 hits was also to encourage user to buy potion to heal itself.

Q : Why Angel Haosis kill unit in single hit?
A : Cause he was the divine unit and the rarest. It only spawn 3 times in the entire event and give a rather huge sum of gold. Else, what do you expect from a unit that give 10 times the gold values of the Emperor Haosis does?

The high damage is to encourage user to use spell and to adopt Hit & Run tactic.

Q : Does this map have rematch system?
A : Yes, it have rematch system which remove the entire gold, reset every status and remove every single unit in the map to start a new match.

Q : What makes this map unique?
A : Apart from a good AI and variety of game mode to be choose from. Each event does not last longer than 10 minutes to avoid player from getting bored.

To encourage player to focus more on the gameplay, the NPC in this map always move to random position. Making it harder for player to purchase item.

Q : How many NPC available in this map?
A : Three, but they are hard to be find since they always move around the map.

Q : How do they move around the map?
A : The basic NPC usually running around the map which is also known as Supplier Horse, the second npc sold intermediate item is known as Wise Old Man which constantly blink around the map and the third npc sold a good item
often Wind Walk across the map.

Q : Is there any bug in this map?
A : Absolutely NO from me. Infact, I won't be submitting it to this site if I do not ensure the quality at top notch. Rest assure that every single hotkey was working and every item and ability have the necessary description.

Of course, grammar and spelling mistake have been remove as well (But I could be wrong ).
Attached Images
File type: jpgMap Preview.jpg (6.1 KB)
File type: jpgIOM - Screenshot 1.jpg (48.3 KB)
File type: jpgIOM - Screenshot 2.jpg (118.3 KB)
File type: jpgIOM - Screenshot 5.jpg (194.2 KB)
Attached Files
File type: w3xInvasion Of MasterHaosis v1.10.w3x (557.6 KB)
02-25-2009, 05:17 PM#2
Alexis_Septimus
Version 1.10

-Fix information error.
02-26-2009, 12:26 AM#3
Kwah
From what I've seen of this math in the past, it is not up to the submission standards here.

I'll look at it again soon.
02-26-2009, 12:40 AM#4
WILL THE ALMIGHTY
Kinda neat, I guess. But Wc3c doesn't usually mix with the Hive, so some of the inside jokes might fall flat.
02-26-2009, 01:21 AM#5
Alexis_Septimus
Quote:
From what I've seen of this math in the past, it is not up to the submission standards here.

I'll look at it again soon.

As far as I know; the map must be original, free of bug and be 70% and above complete. Since Rui said this map was positive at the term of originality, receive a positive feedback from harsh critique at hiveworkshop and have all the minor bug such as malfunction hotkey & grammar error fix.

I was like.. you know, try my luck.

Quote:
Kinda neat, I guess. But Wc3c doesn't usually mix with the Hive, so some of the inside jokes might fall flat.

Well, sort of. Just hope that it can blend very well, maybe it could be a start of a beautiful relationship between both site?

And I post the description at detail and neat way, cause I know you all care about perfection. Did't you?
02-26-2009, 04:22 PM#6
Rising_Dusk
Well, I gave it a try in a full house. The map had absolutely no replayability whatsoever. Basically, every player spawned as the same hero with a different name and you just spammed abilities and killed smiley faces until you lost, and to this moment I still have no idea why we lost. (No documentation)

After maybe 3 minutes of playing, it was just the same thing over and over and over again. That really isn't fun at all, and to be perfectly honest I think the map is really too simple. There's just nothing to do in it, so I really can't see approving it. It needs some actual depth to it, something that makes the players actually, you know, do something.

Disapproved
02-26-2009, 04:26 PM#7
Alexis_Septimus
Quote:
Basically, every player spawned as the same hero with a different name and you just spammed abilities

So, I need to make more variety of hero?

Quote:
to this moment I still have no idea why we lost. (No documentation)

Did't it have quest log to tell player what to do? As far as I known, a quest log and flash note have indicate what a player should do.

Quote:
After maybe 3 minutes of playing, it was just the same thing over and over and over again. That really isn't fun at all, and to be perfectly honest I think the map is really too simple.

I make it as simple as possible to prevent player from quitting the game due to complexity.
02-26-2009, 04:44 PM#8
Rising_Dusk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
I make it as simple as possible to prevent player from quitting the game due to complexity.
There is simple, and there is too simple. This was too simple. Being simple isn't a problem, but you've got no interaction, no replayability, no diversity, no expansion, no brain-required-to-play, etc. Those things combined make the map incredibly dull, and people are liable to leave the game not because it's too hard, no, but rather because there is nothing for them to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
So, I need to make more variety of hero?
This would certainly help your 'no diversity' problem substantially.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
Did't it have quest log to tell player what to do? As far as I known, a quest log and flash note have indicate what a player should do.
If it did, I didn't notice it. The game started right away, so I wouldn't have had any time to read it anyways. You should give players maybe a 60s grace period to glance over the quest log before the enemies begin spawning.
02-26-2009, 04:57 PM#9
Alexis_Septimus
Quote:
There is simple, and there is too simple. This was too simple. Being simple isn't a problem, but you've got no interaction, no replayability, no diversity, no expansion, no brain-required-to-play, etc. Those things combined make the map incredibly dull, and people are liable to leave the game not because it's too hard, no, but rather because there is nothing for them to do.

As far as I know, it might require a little skill to play especially when playing against AI. Spamming ability won't be helpful especially when a user trying to kill a strong creep because I have make some creep as tough as possible so user would adopt the method of Hit & Run.

For some event, knowing how to Kill Steal is crucial because it require user to rack up more point than other user does.

Maybe it require a little brain, as the shop was often running around and give user the fun of searching and trying to purchase item before they.. ugh* run again..

Quote:
This would certainly help your 'no diversity' problem substantially.

As far as I known, different hero usually are nothing as some user prefer to have more unique ability.

So, would having a custom spell book would increase the diversity and chances of approval? Apart from adding additional hero?

Cause in my opinion, having all player with same hero is part of the main challenge that challenge user tactic and strategic to see who could come out as the best.

By having a range or melee hero, I afraid it might cause a serial of inbalance over it and might gradually reduce the chances of it getting approve over here.

Also, I have take caution regarding the file size as well. Since it was a mini-game genre map, I do not want to take the risk of adding more custom spell that could possibly increase the file size of it.

Of course, if you said a custom spell increase the rate of approval, I would add it right away.

Quote:
If it did, I didn't notice it. The game started right away, so I wouldn't have had any time to read it anyways. You should give players maybe a 60s grace period to glance over the quest log before the enemies begin spawning.

After the host select the event, a message would appear indicate the quest. Just like how the wc3 campaign does. If what you said is true, I would add 15 second time for user to read it.
02-26-2009, 05:36 PM#10
Rising_Dusk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
As far as I know, it might require a little skill to play especially when playing against AI. Spamming ability won't be helpful especially when a user trying to kill a strong creep because I have make some creep as tough as possible so user would adopt the method of Hit & Run.
Giving a creep a lot of life does not make it require any additional skill to kill. It just means they have to do the same thing more times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
For some event, knowing how to Kill Steal is crucial because it require user to rack up more point than other user does.
Kill stealing is not only a lame dynamic, but it's a bloody team game. All that matters is that the enemy dies, not who kills it. If it happens to be any other way, then your map has some serious fundamental issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
Maybe it require a little brain, as the shop was often running around and give user the fun of searching and trying to purchase item before they.. ugh* run again..
The map is so small, I can right click across the screen without moving my camera and be in range of the shop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
So, would having a custom spell book would increase the diversity and chances of approval? Apart from adding additional hero?
Giving every hero fifty spells isn't going to change the fact that every hero is the same. The problem is diversity in what players do on the whole, not what each individual hero can do. I mean, you can always learn a different ability than your friends, but that doesn't make it feel any different because you both can be the same. That's the thing that needs to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
After the host select the event, a message would appear indicate the quest. Just like how the wc3 campaign does. If what you said is true, I would add 15 second time for user to read it.
I really think giving the players a chance to read stuff would help in that regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Septimus
Also, I have take caution regarding the file size as well. Since it was a mini-game genre map, I do not want to take the risk of adding more custom spell that could possibly increase the file size of it.
JASS or GUI spells take up maybe 1kb of space for several thousand lines of code, if even. Don't worry about that, just be careful about custom model/texture/etc. imports.

Anyways, you should be more concerned with improving your map, not getting it approved. If your map is absolutely awesome, it will inevitably be approved. Don't worry about that.
02-27-2009, 03:02 AM#11
Alexis_Septimus
Quote:
Giving a creep a lot of life does not make it require any additional skill to kill. It just means they have to do the same thing more times.

Yeah, I know but it encourage user to use a very basic strategic.

Quote:
Kill stealing is not only a lame dynamic, but it's a bloody team game. All that matters is that the enemy dies, not who kills it. If it happens to be any other way, then your map has some serious fundamental issues.

The game concept was different depends on which event you play. They might seems to be team work game, then again some event are like slightly opposite even though both player are same team.

Quote:
The map is so small, I can right click across the screen without moving my camera and be in range of the shop.

I never expect that considering those shop always run into hidden spot. I would probably make the camera lock to player heroes to fix that.

Quote:
Giving every hero fifty spells isn't going to change the fact that every hero is the same. The problem is diversity in what players do on the whole, not what each individual hero can do. I mean, you can always learn a different ability than your friends, but that doesn't make it feel any different because you both can be the same. That's the thing that needs to change.

As I know, different hero only mean different type of attack. For example range attack/melee attack or different attribute only. If I enable a hero to have 2 type of attack. Would it be fine?

Quote:
Anyways, you should be more concerned with improving your map, not getting it approved. If your map is absolutely awesome, it will inevitably be approved. Don't worry about that.

Well, I do concern about the improvement. Back at hive, the only negative feedback I receive was the overpowered AI (Which it isn't), balance issue (Fix), spelling & grammar (Fix), and Import material (Fix). Rui even give a positive result regarding the fun (Which you said it was negative). Because of it, I decided to post my resources here considering it was ready.

It never cross my mind the replayability would be negative to you and resulted into disapprove.

Would it be approve if in version 1.11 I add this several feature?

1) 10 seconds delay after a event have been selected so a user could read what is the mission objective all about?
2) Enable hero to fight melee/range?
3) Enable random rune spawn across the map?
4) Enable weather effect that could effect the user?

Or do you have better suggestion? If the suggestion is about adding more variety of hero, that was kinda worried me as it could effect the AI and force me to reconstruct the entire trigger.
02-27-2009, 03:30 AM#12
Pyrogasm
You need to make it fun. That's the bottom line, and right now it really isn't.
02-27-2009, 03:36 AM#13
Alexis_Septimus
Quote:
You need to make it fun. That's the bottom line, and right now it really isn't.

I receive positive feedback about the fun back at hive, but at here it was negative which is something I never expect it (Cause I usually though you all care about perfection only such as no bug, proper scripting and so on).

Right now I need to know if having this feature implement would increase the fun/replayability or not and what is the possible suggestion you all can give to make it more interesting.

I cannot read human mind, a different site & user have their own way of elaborate what is fun. Right now I do not know what you all would like it to have in order to be fun. :(
02-27-2009, 03:50 AM#14
Pyrogasm
It needs variety; it needs something to interest us; it needs replayability; it needs to have stragegy; it needs to engage the players; it needs a lot of stuff that Dusk has been suggesting that you've been making excuses for not fixing/doing anything about.


We are not The Hive. Wc3c has a high standard for the types of maps accepted into the database. If you want to know what "fun" is, check out some of the approved maps that interest you.

Yes, everyone has his or her own definition of "fun", but there are a lot of basics that this map misses out on.
02-27-2009, 04:01 AM#15
Alexis_Septimus
Quote:
Dusk has been suggesting that you've been making excuses for not fixing/doing anything about.

I know, he point out the need to increase the fun of it. But I had no idea what possibility of unique and yet fun feature I could add into it that make it suit the wc3c user taste. After all, I am trying to get the resources into database and the only way to do it was to make it suitable to the admin standard/taste of it.

Suppose I implement a fun feature into it and you found it to be ho hum*, then we would just get back to where we started. Don't you agree? That is why I am asking a question of what you want and what you need to increase the success rate.

And no, I am not making any excuse. I just need more detail before implement it. I am sure you do not want a map author to implement a pointless stuff into their map, do you?

Quote:
We are not The Hive. Wc3c has a high standard for the types of maps accepted into the database. If you want to know what "fun" is, check out some of the approved maps that interest you.

Yes, I know the extremely high standard of it and none of the site have such a high requirement. That is why I work hard to get it bug free and as fun as possible. I know receiving a positive feedback at other site won't be that helpful, but they were merely a guide to see if the map was ready to be submit.

The main reason why I do not check the approve map of wc3c to know what fun is because of the personal term of fun and I try to get the map fun in his own way. Creating a map with the fun theme according to the approve map at wc3c would be likely to another duplicate of the map. Don't you agree?