| 04-26-2010, 07:32 PM | #1 | ||||||
Hello, everyone! Before I start off, I want to mention that this is the first map/campaign I have posted (created one or two earlier though, but nothing major), but don't judge the map based on that but on the actual quality. Summary:
An RPG for coop using two players, or singleplayer. The user(s) have two Heroes (either both controled by one player, or one each) and work together to battle bosses and their minions and explore the realm of the afterliving. Features:
The map (and later on campaign) features two player gameplay (with triggers to give the second player control if one player leaves the game, or control over both sides instantly if singleplayer), as well as custom triggered GUI spells, custom items, a large world to explore, bosses with triggered spells and dangerous abilities and cinematics (with extra cinematics if there are two players present). Team:
The Druidinator (Everything) All spots free (wasn't planning on making it a team effort, but help is appreciated) Progress:
Terrain: 60% Triggers: 20-30% Spells: 45% Cinematics: 35% Items: 5% Misc:
What I would like is basicly feedback on anything concerning the map; spells, triggers, bugs, characters, areas, boss fights and balance (balance is something I haven't looked at all too much, so both the Heroes and foes might be a little unbalanced), items, cinematics and bugs. You know the deal. I will edit this post soon and add screenshot(s), as well as known issues (there are a couple, but first I'll let you see if you can find them, to see if they are such big issues after all). Attached are both the map itself, as well as the interlude cinematic to it (you should view it in order to understand the event that put the main characters in their situation, no spoilers!). Edit: Posted new version of the map with a couple changes based on feedback. Added screenshots! Will add more as I go. Known Issues (To be fixed):
Changelog:
Screenshots:
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| 04-27-2010, 10:01 PM | #2 |
Where is the "RPG" in this? Are you planning to add more progression? I have a bunch of thoughts on this. (First, you had a typo of "on" --> "one" in the first block of text of the intro movie) I liked your opening story, it's a great premise. I think you need to tighten up the dialog and really focus on the key points and get the player moving to their first objective. The game needs more feedback. You say the first item is to the west, and I went in that direction without really being sure what I was looking for. In the movie, show players what they need to find, and a hint "I'll show you where to find the first piece" would be useful with a minimap ping or something. From viewing the map in the editor, it looks like you have invested a lot of time into this already and you have a fully populated map here. There are a few key gameplay items that you need to polish up before you can expect people to do much testing with it. The biggest is your death system, by which I mean there wasn't one. I died and that was it, no message, no respawn, no anhks. Since this is a non-competitive RPG game, you really need players to automatically respawn. It's nice to have ankhs available to save time walking back, but on that point you should also have respawn points. Just remember that nobody has ever had fun playing an RPG where you lose when you run out of anhks. Like I said, this game is non-competitive so your ultimate goal is to let the player have a fun time. Don't rob them of gameplay because of excessively strict respawn rules. It seems like your primary gameplay is having the player possess enemies and use them for combat. This seems like a great idea, but again need to tighten some things up. My advice is to make the possession automatic. Give the player the posession ability and then use triggers to create a dummy unit to possess the targeted enemy automatically. It will save the player some tedious micromanagement with each possession. When I eventually died it was because I spawned the soul splinter thing but it died before I could possess the brood mother, then I was rooted and killed. Speed up the gameplay. You don't have any extra abilities or unique combat features, so just standing there auto attacking is not fun. The fun should come from possessions and explorations. Speed up combat and the player will be able to keep up a faster and more tolerable pacing in the game. Finally, your possession mechanic is only being used for combat (at least what I saw so far). Never forget that this is a single player or co-op game, so you can be as creative as you want, and you really have to do some interesting stuff to keep players in the game until the end. Make the player have to possess a rock smasher to bust down a doodad wall of rocks, or possess a flying creature to get over an obstacle, or make the player hunt down a huge enemy to possess so you can use it to smash a bunch of tiny guys (tiny guys could auto respawn from a structure and the only way to kill the respawn structure faster than the respawn rate is to find the really huge/powerful enemy) This probably sounds like a lot of negativity here, but you have an excellent concept. Just flesh it out the gameplay and add some really creative stuff here and you'll be OK. |
| 04-28-2010, 07:47 AM | #3 |
Finally some feedback, I was starting to believe the forum had decided my map didn't deserve attention (yes, I know, slow-moving forum and all. Heard it before). To start with, a good deal of your feedback are actually things that have crossed my mind and haven't been implemented yet. I'm not saying you shouldn't tell me them though, since you are merely acknowledging my plans. The only reason I didn't fix them before posting this was probably a little bit of laziness mixed with fortgetfulness. The real RPG element to this though shows first after the two first missions. You can see Scorch Canyon and later the Banks of Sethra as a minitutorial in the Underworld lore and "feel". Alright, where to start... finding the mana harversters (the objective of the first phase of the game) is a thing I'm regretting. It is the only quest of the entire map, actually. I will be adding a camera pan in the intro cinematic over to one of the harvesters (they are those blueish crystals hovering), to clarify what you need to do, and use map pings to help. Concerning the death system: The first part of the game, you play as a simple banshee unit, as you noticed. After that part though, you are upgraded into a Hero, with a system of respawn points (inspired by the ones in the Rexxar campaign). I was unsure of how to get the non-hero Laura respawn, as a good deal of the first triggers are bound to her (as in Laura 001 and such), and re-creating her would mess it up. This was before I started using variables, I actually started this map a year ago, dropped it after only a short while, and picked it up again a few weeks ago. I chose to use a trigger that sets Laura's (and later Gregory's) health to 100% if it falls below a certain level, but I guess there are a unit or two in Scorch Canyon who deal enough damage to skip the trigger and kill Laura. Using variables though, I should be able to create a system that respawns you at the start. Concerning ankhs and such: I am trying to keep them out. Several boss battles would bug up with their wipe reseting system if you could come back to unlife, but as earlier said I will be implementing a pre-hero respawning system. It's a shame you died on Brood mama, as it's only a very short part into the game. Hope you will take another look once I tighten up Scorch Canyon (it's actually the part I'm the least proud of, and I agree on it being too slow. I buffed the damage of the Wildkins and Giant Skeleton Warriors for instance, to actually let them kill each other before the timer runs out). The Possesion gameplay is only the intro of the game, but it should be fixed. Some of your ideas there (smashing rocks using units) are pretty good, I will have them in mind. But I am trying to avoid flying units that you can control, as that could let you explore areas you aren't supposed to see on forehand. I worked hard on giving you small peeks on for instance the Zakhaelan Temple Ruins (but you died on Brood Mother so you didn't get that far, sadly), but at the same time keeping your LoS restrained. Of course, some trigger work and LoS blockers could do the trick, but it's not worth it. To sum up, I loved your criticism and will be fixing Scorch Canyon to a level that is on par with the other areas of the Underworld. Give me a little while and I'll post a better version. |
| 04-28-2010, 10:07 AM | #4 |
I tested this got about somewhere to the tree of death before dying. I liked how the start was very mysterious and all in feel. However once you got pass the first area and both Gregory and Laura get their hero forms the feeling of mystery kinda goes away. I cant say for sure why but perhaps Bakhar gets too friendly with you? (Dialogue wise). Id also like to point out there are no quests in the quest log after the inital one to collect the power cores. |
| 04-28-2010, 10:39 AM | #5 | |
Quote:
Thanks for your thoughts! With getting to somewhere around Tree of Death, do you mean into the boss fight or someplace else in the Bone Garden? Also, did you stop it there (a bug in the respawn system?) or continue? Feeling of mystery fading, you say. It probably hasn't to do with the fighting or environment (or perhaps you find the Bone Garden un-mystical?), so you are probably right in it being the cinematics. I'll look them over to see if I can spot (and improve) the issue. And on the matter of quests, that quest was created about a year ago before I dropped the map, and I didn't feel like reworking it. But I might add more quests, or remove it altogether. |
| 04-29-2010, 03:09 PM | #6 |
Well thewhole point of having a quest I think is to remind people what their current objective is incase they forget. At the moment there is no way to know what your doing if you forget. Also I lost at the bone garden before the tree itself. The row of gates with the attacking ancients was pretty hard to click on and so i lost. |
| 04-29-2010, 03:45 PM | #7 |
I'll be thinking over the quest thing, probably adding a couple more. In the current version, the first into missions with the pre-Hero units have space-points set and map pings to make it easier, but nothing has been done about the content after that. Will get to it sooner or later. @The row of gates: Aah, the Garden Gauntlet event. It's meant to be quite hard, especially on singleplayer since it's tough to move two units around the rock throws than it is with a single one. What did you think of the respawn system then? And did you give up there or did you get further, since there were quite many parts you missed if you ended it there. What are your thoughts on the other parts of the map, then? Abilities in special, since there are a couple of matters concerning them. See, the Rager has Thunderclap and Avatar as placeholders for his real third ability and ultimate. The Ghost has Frost Nova in the spot that was reserved for a spell named Soul Freeze, a Frost Nova that would spawn minions for each foe caught in it, who would attack for a couple seconds and then die. I scrapped it though, since it was tough to get working and pretty buggy. Does anyone have ideas or thoughts for possible spells to fill this gap? An AoE mainly, or if not an interesting and fitting spell. The Ghost is centered around manipulation of magic and souls, and frost based spells. The Rager's two gaps are a bigger issue, though. There are a couple ideas for his third ability; an activated ability that would add an armor and spell %resist bonus and drain mana (to fit his role as the tank), or a powerful single-target strike that also heals for a % of damage done. His ultimate would be an activated spell, that spawns an illusionary copy of him for each strike that can attack and damage the enemies for a strike or two, effectivly doubling or trippling his damage output. If you have ideas that could replace these two, they should fit the themes of tanking, ferocity and rage or shadowbased fire. |
| 04-30-2010, 07:52 AM | #8 |
Actually the garden gauntlet isnt that hard, its because the gates are so hard to target that I lost. |
| 04-30-2010, 07:56 AM | #9 | |
Quote:
Well, I'm unsure of how to make it easier targeting the gates (though increasing the targeting size and all might help... will look at it). Might also buff the Rock Throwers in order to step up the difficulty. |