Number of Players in an RPG

I'm making an RPG, and I thought about this for some time, it specialy involves balance, game difficulty and also: fun.

In my opinion, playing an rpg (not open-rpg) with 2-3 players is more fun than with 6-8 players. But i'd like to know what you guys think, most of the RPGs I see are 6+ players, and personaly I find it stupid to have an army of 6 heroes rush a group of creeps, but whatever... please give me your opinions.

Desty-

Well i dont mind if there are many players. Anyway half of them in middle of game will leave (laggers will get dropped at begin) Minimum i think should be 4 players.

People will always leave games early. Thats as certain as death and taxes. So it is better to have it be able to have 6-8 heroes so the ****ers who leave in the beginning wont ruin the game. I also like it when there are 3-4 people playing non-open rpgs.

It's just the fact that 6 is a very good number :)...it's exactly between the "personal" rpg, and the crazy 8 people rpg.

I'm currently helping with a big-*** rpg with similar points as you (balanced/difficult) And we are basing it for 6 players, but the fact is, that there comes in our balancing/difficulty, as it doesnt matter how many you are, the game builds up the difficulty based on number of players, level of players, and location of players, so this rpg can be as well be played solo by the loner, and he can still win it (tho it'll be hard)

But basicly, that's what you have to worry about, if you get up a system that keeps it cool no matter the number of players, then you can strike at 7-8 players if you want, and it won't matter, else, if you put only 1 general difficulty, you'd generally need to set it at a low number of players, so it's easy to get people in there to play, AND to maintain there over the game (something like 3-4)

hmm intresting,
I am aware of people leaving, but the thing with RPGs, and I'm talking about long RPGs like 3-4h completion, is that you don't usually create them and wait for people, but rather get a group of friends that are wiling to spend that time, or save the game and reload when they get more time, or, play with someone or several people on LAN. As these kind of RPGs, need alot of team work, people stay close together... imagine 6 heroes clustered up, doing their spells and abilities... team work is also alot harder when more than 3 people, you can't really team work at all, you just rush the enemy and fight him, throwing out all your spells. This is the kind of thing I want to avoid. For that reason I'm thinking of 3-5 players max. what ya think?

DeSty-

Hmm, ya, i see your point

That's why we are making this compatible with any number of players, and it's fun to do this.

Oh and i agree on the need for time for real long rpg's (as the one i'm workin' on is VERY long), the best part about the one i'm working on, is the hero development. As our system includes a special stat-system (you may know this, "Hero Quest", dakan is doing a TFT "re-mix") and over 100 levels (20 skill points to spend while getting one every 5 levels) so you really "can" beat this map at lvl 35 if you are good, but you might want to experience and "quest" (we're doing great deal of work in doing long interesting side-quests with cool rewards) to get more stats and better skills (ultimates, class-skills (given at certain levels depending on class (f.ex. assasin might get pick-pocket, barbarian might get damage resistance)) And this way we're giving the player alot of things to do.

But my experience at playing hero-quest on bnet is that it'll start with a full-game, and then it'll end up as 3-4 players in the end (late-game). but it's still alot of fun. And i don't really know if 3-4 player (long) rpg's would follow the same destiny (4 players starting, 2 leaving) as then there'd be more chances that you'd end up alone,

but anyways good luck with ur rpg :), i'll be interested to see it when it's finished (i see that will take some time depending on your "progress"-info in your sig.)

Ah yea hero quest =) the new TFT version looks cool, from the screenshots, good luck with that. I think my decision will be to have 4 players, as I said this kind of RPG is usually played between freinds, you KNOW are going to stay till the end. I have to say I've had alot of fun with Kaggz RPG if you know about it with just 2 players, as its also more chalenging.(No fun when you don't need to micro). Oh and also, I got 8 heroes at the moment and I'll probably add 1, but most importantly, 2 players shouldn't be able to choose the same hero, therefore, having 8 players or so, will be a bit tough as the last to choose won't have much choice. The thing is I don't want to risk a game where no one leaves and there are 6 persones playing till the end, as what you are suggesting, is the 6 players is only because you know people will leave and not because it is nice to play at 6.

Well, these are my views,
cheers
DeSty

:) heh

lol,

Well, that's the sweet thing about the thing we're doing, we're building the system up so it can handle any number of players without being to impossible in solo nor incredibly easy when 6 (full house). When multiplayer, the system will require teamwork, and people will have a HARD time solo'ing in a full-house game. The classes are also built up for support and team-work in mind, and the weaker mages will have a REAL hard time solo'ing unless having the support of heavy str-based heros.

But anyways, as it's getting now, this difficulty system is getting really good. And since you recognize HQ, i might let you know that we scrapped the existing spawning system, and made a spawning system that is similar to the one in the Orc campaign, minus the fact that it's much more challenging.

Open RPG's must have the maximum amount of players. But for regular RPG's I think 5-6 is good.

Well it depends. Most Open Rpg's out now are just melee maps with lvl 20 heroes, seriously. I guess 12 max is good for that, because you don't have to take into account all the triggers and advanced stuff in real rpg's. I personally am making a "Hybrid" Open Rpg. It is sort of Open, but it actually has quests other in depth features. For this, 4-6 players works perfectly.

I'll have to agree with FyreDaug for the number of players, 8-10 for open rpg, and 5 for standard.

Now this brings an interesting question up:

Respawning creeps

I think it is really anoying unless really well done, what I'm saying is if anyone played World of warcraft(RoC) RPG, well that was the most anoying thing, you were picking up the items, and woops the creeps respawned ON you! Blizzards RPG was also pretty anoying because of that but yet it was fun to play. I think respawning should only be in open RPGs, and that it should only be creeps outside of main roads and paths, specialy if you often need to go back and forth. Another solution would have to be a main building to destroy like a hive or something, for each creature and then they don't spawn anymore.... dunno, but be careful with respawning!

DeSty-

Sorry, posted it twice, connection was messed up...

DeSty-

You can respawn units near town if it's in reasonable numbers and they don't stack. This also works if you have a "Transport" system, so you dont have to walk through all that crap over and over again :D

hmm, ya, that is true.

But we do have well-made portaling system so if you die/respawn, you can teleport to a town near your pals, ofcourse you can also travel around with this, and we keep that option open, but i think players will want to take the longer way just to get experience, as each level-up is very interesting past lvl 20 or so, cause then you get those 5 stats you can choose where would go, and you also get one level closer to a new skill/skill-level.

The spawnings are ofcourse a sensitive feature and we're trying to keep it hard but still fair, ofcourse we made it from start that creeps would not spawn like crazy until there are 30 gnolls waiting for you to come close, that's n00bie'ish, what we're tweaking is the difficulty of the monsters compared to spawn-intensity, and we have been testing quite much to get it to a good level. And f.ex. the route from the beginning (respawn-point) too the main open area is ofcourse skippable with teleport system (as that would "only" cause annoyance) and on that "main" open area, the creeps will "level" with your party, and the types of creeps will also change depending on your level (f.ex. gnoll archer when your level 6-15, and then gnoll assasin spawns at 15-30, and then some crazyer stuff...and ofcourse we'll keep individual "strengthening" (every 5 "party-level" the creeps would get more powerful).

But note, that this can also help towards game-length, i mean, look at what they do in those mmorpg's :P, nothing!, but wait for a new enemy to spawn to kill/loot/level-up :P

nah, just kiddin', i'm just sayin' how we are tryin' to make this work

For respawns... You can set a system of "camps" where the creatures spawn and slowly go out over time. Therefore, if you want to, you can destroy those camps and prevent creatures from respawning. Otherwise, over time, new ones will spawn and go back to where the other creatures once were. Camps could be as easy as just a secluded hole with 2 huts and a few creatures.


As for player #...

Well if you're making a personal RPG / non-open RPG, I would suggest 3-6 players. I too do find 10-12 player RPGs ludicrous.

But, here is a twist to that idea. Why not 5 players vs. 5 player RPG - where the two sides have opposite goals.

Its not AOS - which honestly, is just a train of guys going against anothe train while your heroes leach.

I'm saying a real RPG where its two factions - like say its a war between Giants and Dragons. And the quests / RP'ing you do is counter to what the other team is doing. Like your goal maybe be to hunt down so-and-so in the town while they have to defend him. You can do any system to this - from triggers that create a full blown war once you steal such-and-such defense plans, to a point system where at the end the winners are who has the most objectives complete, to a system where its a race to the end such as destroying the temple of that faction.

That system IMO could promote the small RPG style with micro while also facing real opponents who aren't as stupid as the computer.

BUT if your going for the more classic style RPG, then I would suggest 3-6 players as the best.

But I do have a few suggestions:

-Randomness - randomizing encounters, drops, creatures, etc.
-Encounters shouldn't just be easy gnolls or orcs that get slaughtered. I'm tired of seeing RPGs where your opponents are a joke.

How about for once your party is the joke and the creatures are a challenge.

Instead of facing 10 gnolls that get slaughetered by the 5 demon hunters, how about facing 10 real tough gnolls in a mixed party. They hit almost as hard as you, they have almost the same HP as you, and they cast spells as well.

Encounters should also face oppnents perhaps mirror images of yourself - you can use variables and create encoutners wehre you face heroes that have the same level, exp, and spell selection as you do. So instead of a group of 5 guys slaughtering countless creatures, you may enter a town where 5 guys that are the mirror iamge of your party fight you.