"Smart" AOS's?

Why is it that I have never seen any AoS's with smart computer players? It's always the same thing. Two well-defended bases are sitting on opposite sides of the map. Each player churns out unit after unit even though it mines no gold... no economy is visible at all. If a tower is destroyed, it is never replaced because the computer is a complete idiot. The heroes tend to do most of the real work. The computer only provides troops to act as meat shields for the towers and a source of income for the players. Sure, putting the true power into the hands of the players isn't bad... but this just isn't that realistic to me.

I'd like to see one where each team starts out with a town hall, a few peons, a gold mine and a few defensive towers. The computer would mine gold, train units, research, expand its borders, etc. There would be 4 teams. Each one for each race. It would be a 2 v 2 game, though. Night Elves and Humans versus Undead and Orcs I suppose.

The computers would play much like a real player would. They'd fight over gold mines, aid their allies that are in trouble. They would COORDINATE their forces. They wouldn't just send each footmen to the enemy base when it's done. They'd build up an ARMY and then concentrate on an enemy expansion, and as soon as it's destroyed their army will remain there, defending the location while their workers come in and being construction of their OWN base.

I see the players more as being their computer players' generals. Each one ought to have an area-effect spell called "Command." They cast it on a few of their computer's units in an area, and those units come under their command temporarily, in case they have an idea that the computer doesn't.

To be frank, I think AoS gameplay is getting dry... I'd much rather see something like this implemented.

I would make the map myself, but I have no idea how to make good AI scripts. i COULD use the melee AI, I suppose, but there would be things I would want to change. Also, I would want the players on the team to have a VARIETY of AI Scripts to choose from that they would want their computer to use... like, "Heavy Ground Producer", "Heavy Air Producer", "Early Rush", "Turtler", etc.

I suppose you could say, "Why not just give control of the computer player to a USER instead?"

Well, first and fore-most, people tend to play AoS because they want to play as a single hero. They don't want to be managing bases and unit production and resource harvesting. If they wanted that, they'd be playing melee.

Second, that player slot would be vitally important. If one team has a noob and the other team has a veteran, then the veteran's team will assuredly win, hands down. At least with other AoS's, teams can usually get by with one or two noobs.

Third, even noobishness pales in comparison to a malicious player who would seek to do only evil with the kind of power that is given to that player slot. If you're dealing with some 12-year-old k3wl d00dish brat, he might just decide to kill his own teammates for fun, or even just kill himself.

Finally, if that player LEAVES... well, I think that speaks for itself. AI Scripts for this type of map are a MUST.


I would gladly do the triggering, terrain sculpting, and object editing... but as for AI, I would be stumped. Not to mention I'm too busy with another map, so I wouldn't want to start on a new map at the moment...

Isn't there anyone who is making or would want to make a map like this?

It would be a godsend.

what's with the One Winged Angel is my friend sigs... I've seen too many of them now!!! AHHH!!!

Yea, this sounds great, having ur AoS comp build its way up from a crappy starting village into a massive empire,a nd with you helping is a great idea. Youll basically just have to use the AI editor and probably a few triggers, but once running itlld be pretty awesome. You would be able to go along with computer raiding parties to enemy expansions, creep territory, build outposts etc.
Illd be interested in helping, though Im pretty busy.

The sig shows the name of who ever is looking at it, log out and look at it and it will say "Guest is my friend".

sounds great, im working on my own map right now, but if you need a tester or some small help, im here :ggani:

Pretty good idea i'd say, if done right.

Mixing an AoS map with about 1/4 of the technicalities of a Melee map would be fun i think.

To do it right id think you would need many bases that you can conquer, and have the bases exchange hands several times.

If i ever made an AoS map this is probably what I would do, simply because I think ToB pretty much matured the standard definition of what an AoS is.

I'm in the process of making an AoS with advanced AI, AoS: The Hordes of Darkness. The problem is, you'd be suprised how difficult it is.

I thought about it, but considered it as too difficult.

All I got is:

- Smart Computer Heroes that heal if they are low on life, have special triggered abilities and most abilities get used via triggers to make them even more ass. For example the mageslayer has a teleport attack and goes for all int based heroes with high mana. Etc

- Castle sends out peons to repair buildings if you got the upgrade.

- Every once in a while the castle sends a building troup out to build a rax further away from the base, to have the troops faster in battle.

me likes your siggy :P (yea kinda off topic, oh well)

*yes and i read how it displays everyone who reads it's name*

I checked out your Hordes of Darkness official thread. It sounds cool, but, from I read, the advanced AI still wasn't quite what I was referring to...

I imagine that I could be a good AI scripter if I just knew how to do it. is there a good tutorial for the AI Editor? or would it be best do it in JASS? (I never bothered to learn JASS =( )

Why not use the normal AI scripts and just change the game slightly to make it "fitable" for heroes? Like when the computer player is completed with altar, the players can choose a hero which will be created at the altar. And then the game just playes on like normal... heroes will harass to let their comp tech, creep together, kill enemy heroes and such.....i think that simple thing woulod be great

this would ruin the entire idea of aosses...

the whole idea behind aos is thos dumb ****s that just start fighting brainlessly, it is all about the heros!

it would also greatly slow gameplay down to have smart comps and four (!) teams. if you have four teams you cant have 5 players in one team, wich is a must for a good eos.

dont get me wrong, i like the idea, and if you get it finished and working good, i would probubly play it, but its NOT an eos animore...

you've just invented something totally new.

and i dont think aosses are 'dumb'. Dota requires some pretty intense hero tactics and hero control to be a good player. i think you just might have been playing too many crappy eosses, wich tft has A LOT of... and i mean a lot... they just keep coming.

i will mark this as a pomusing project though... i'm reather curiouse how it would 'feel', theres just one thing you really have to do, and that is NOT start out with just peons and a goldmine, you have to have a basic village with defneces right from the beginning. otherwise you can just go with your team, run to the closest nearby village and kill the peons... bye bye game. and besides, if you dont have starting towns and starting towers, the first 15/30 minutes would be INCREDIBLY boring.

I'm sorry if you feel offended or anything, i just cant stand it if someone calls eos gameplay dumb... if you dont like it, why play it?

I never said that AOS's were dumb. AOS has always been one of my favorites. However, I simply said that AOS gameplay has become a bit dry. There's not enough innovation in the genre anymore.

I think 4 teams is necessary so that you can include all 4 of the races, also it means more armies and more bases to destroy. Two teams would be totally boring. Also, keep in mind that it's 2 v 2, so you'd have 4 players vs 4 players, which is still good for an AoS. The game would still be mainly about the heroes, its just that the computer would have a little more life to it. That's all. The game would be sooo much more dynamic!

I agree that it would probably be something quite different from a typical AoS... but in my opinion, this is the best direction that the genre can go in.

Also, i DID say that the players would start out with basic defenses and such.

The early game wouldn't be bad.... you'd mainly be creeping for items and experience and such, and clearing out gold mines for your AI to capture.

Sure, go for it

But there's a reason why people don't do it:
We want an AoS, not a melee game

Taking down a tower can be quite long, so imagine having to do it 981257851975190786936789207 times in a game because they would always rebuild it

No thx, let's stick with normal AoS

Well, in most AoS's, towers are made to be extremely powerful with tons of HP because they can't be rebuilt...

so, obviously, in a game where many are built, they wouldn't be so powerful.

A problem like that is easily remedied with the Unit Editor


Also, keep in mind that it would not be a melee game. It would still place most of the power in the heroes. The computers are just more dynamic and intelligent.