| 06-16-2004, 09:56 PM | #1 |
My Dimensia Defense TD is mostly done, with only minor triggering required to set up the various modes of play. However I want races to be implemented that YOU guys want to have implemented. Before you post your ideas, remember that I will be doing the balancing, so you needn't post the gold cost, only the tech tree. Right now I have 4 preliminary races which may be implemented, but I think we can all agree that four races isn't all that much. So I need your help with tech trees, upgrades (ability and building), and race ideas. My TD will be long. An infinite number of levels, with the first 50 being set in stone, and the remaining levels (51 to... well infinity) using random models from the first 50 (and some bonus ones) with different HP and stats. I believe 16 to 20 towers will be adequate, with at least 3/4 of the towers having some sort of ability or building upgrade. If you post a race, keep that in mind. For preliminary balancing to be done by you, the suggestion poster, I have here a list of the HPs on the first 50 levels. Code:
Level HP Add Bounty? HP in Level (Level HP) / (HP of Levels 1-50) 1 100 4800 0.02% 2 206 9888 0.04% 3 241 11568 0.05% 4 162 yes 7776 0.03% 5 282 13536 0.06% 6 353 16944 0.07% 7 260 12480 0.05% 8 379 18192 0.08% 9 512 24576 0.10% 10 410 yes 19680 0.08% 11 504 24192 0.10% 12 735 35280 0.15% 13 637 30576 0.13% 14 664 31872 0.14% 15 1044 50112 0.21% 16 976 yes 46848 0.20% 17 861 41328 0.18% 18 1469 70512 0.30% 19 1477 70896 0.30% 20 1100 52800 0.22% 21 2044 98112 0.42% 22 2211 yes 106128 0.45% 23 1384 66432 0.28% 24 2817 135216 0.57% 25 3271 157008 0.67% 26 2214 106272 0.45% 27 3841 184368 0.78% 28 4791 yes 229968 0.97% 29 3538 169824 0.72% 30 5181 248688 1.05% 31 6943 333264 1.41% 32 5567 yes 267216 1.13% 33 6907 331536 1.40% 34 9965 478320 2.03% 35 8635 414480 1.76% 36 9100 436800 1.85% 37 14160 679680 2.88% 38 13220 yes 634560 2.69% 39 11835 568080 2.41% 40 19926 956448 4.05% 41 20000 960000 4.07% 42 15180 728640 3.09% 43 27763 yes 1332624 5.65% 44 29914 1435872 6.08% 45 19178 920544 3.90% 46 38299 1838352 7.79% 47 44265 yes 2124720 9.00% 48 30097 1444656 6.12% 49 52293 2510064 10.63% 50 64828 3111744 13.18% Format for submitting towers (PLEASE use this): Race name: XMethod of Tech Tree Advancement: Examples: Age Tree - An Age consists of # to # towers, and you may advance to the next Age at any time, or upon researching some number of upgrades. Describe ages! Simple Tree - A Skibi-like tree in which you build towers which enable other towers to be built. Describe which tower builds which! Morphing tree - You are given a small number of towers and a 'Base' of sorts. At the base you research things that allow your towers to upgrade into more types of towers. (Very flexible!) Describe # of towers, types of upgrades. X Describe the tech tree as thoroughly as you can, the more easily I can implement the race, the better the game is for you the player! Type(s) of towers: - Examples: High splash range, weak damage. No splash, bouncing attack. Short range, long range artillery, etc. Some names for towers: - Examples: Archer Post, Bunker, SAM Launcher Some upgrades for towers (ability): - Examples: Composite Bow, Add Marine, Rocket Ballistics Some upgrades for towers (building): - Examples: Rifle Post, Automated Turret, Tesla Generator Difficulty of race compared to other races: (very easy, easy, average, hard, very hard) Example of output: Race name: Human Race Type of Tech Tree: Ages Some Ages for that Tree: Dark Age, Renaissance, Imperial Age, Industrial Age, Atomic Age Types of towers: Cannon/explosive towers with low splash, very slow attack and high damage which slowly become faster and wider splash. Lots of long range towers like Bows, Rifles, Howitzer, Cannon. Some short range towers like Tesla Generator and "Cold" Plasma Generator. Tower Names: Bow Tower, Rifle Tower, Automated Turret, SAM Launcher, Alchemist's Tower, Howitzer, Tesla Generator. Tower Upgrades (ability): Composite bows, lots of riflery upgrades and cannon upgrades (cheap to research but not greatly effective to buy just 1), Alchemist Tower has default 'Molten Lead' attack (very short range high damage), Tesla Generator has around 600 range and deals high damage to two or three units in a small area. Tower Upgrades (building): Bow Tower or Archer Post upgrades into Longbow Tower if you have next age. Rifle tower upgrades to Bunker later on, and then Automated Turret. Cannons start out like Handcannons but then become Cannons, then maybe a Howitzer which does line-splash. Difficulty of race: Easy |
| 06-16-2004, 10:57 PM | #2 |
What I don't understand about TDs is why most of the makers don't seem to know about common denominators. Making a monster have 3111744hp first of all means that the HP value won't show up. If you really need to have such a huge increase, maybe you should try starting the first monster at 1hp. After all, damage is a real value to 1hp can essentially be 1.00hp. |
| 06-17-2004, 12:19 AM | #3 |
He doesn't have 3111744 hp. That's the total HP of all monsters a team would fight for that ONE LEVEL. The monsters for that level each have 64828, 3,111,744 / 64,828 = 48. 48 monsters per level. Please read the top of each column, for the column that reads 3,111,744 it says "HP in Level", for the one that reads 64,828 it reads "HP". Use the alt-key if you find that it is difficult to read monster HPs in TDs. The Alt-Key will reveal the hp of all units on screen as a small bar above the model. The bars will overlap any other graphics on the screen providing quick reading. By level 50 you should be capable of killing those monsters. The excel equation for HP is INT(INT(100*1.126468^(Level-1))+ABS((100*1.125^(Level-1))*SIN((Level-1)))) I chose it because it provided ups and downs, which will be balanced by movement speed and aerial levels, and the fact that it has an exponential curve which provides a high level of difficulty past level 40. Notice that level 41 is only 20,000 HP yet level 50 is over three times that. This rate of climb will continue past level 50, because this TD has an infinite number of levels. Edit: If Level 1 were 1 hp, then a single attack would kill Level 1. I dont want towers to do that low of damage at the start. And you cant do decimal damage, last I checked. And if its a real it can go lower than .0000000000001, but that is ignored by the game, it only cares about the first two decimal points. Edit #2: I determined that the current equation was workable for up to 50, but for only very shortly past 50. It would quickly rise beyond any concievable playability (millions and even billions) and it ruined the concept of bonus play for those players that do have an awesome setup. So I have slowed down the increases for all levels exponentially, by making the equation exponentially less, down to a minimum value. So, the new chart is as follows: Code:
Level HP Spec Bounty HP of 48 Units (Level HP) / (HP of Levels 1-50) 1 100 0 1 4,800 0.03% 2 202 0 1 9,696 0.05% 3 243 0 1 11,664 0.06% 4 179 1 F 1 8,592 0.05% 5 251 2 1 12,048 0.07% 6 348 2 1 16,704 0.09% 7 301 3 A 1 14,448 0.08% 8 517 3 B 2 24,816 0.13% 9 701 4 2 33,648 0.18% 10 702 5 2 33,696 0.18% 11 547 5 F 2 26,256 0.14% 12 851 6 B 3 40,848 0.22% 13 949 6 3 45,552 0.25% 14 734 7 F 3 35,232 0.19% 15 1,011 8 3 48,528 0.26% 16 1,499 8 3 71,952 0.39% 17 1,320 9 A 3 63,360 0.34% 18 1,383 9 3 66,384 0.36% 19 1,908 10 3 91,584 0.50% 20 1,857 11 3 89,136 0.48% 21 1,493 11 A 3 71,664 0.39% 22 2,388 12 B 4 114,624 0.62% 23 2,611 12 4 125,328 0.68% 24 2,116 13 A 4 101,568 0.55% 25 3,132 14 4 150,336 0.81% 26 3,842 14 4 184,416 1.00% 27 3,190 15 A 4 153,120 0.83% 28 3,637 15 4 174,576 0.95% 29 5,120 16 4 245,760 1.33% 30 4,798 17 A 4 230,304 1.25% 31 4,036 17 A 4 193,728 1.05% 32 6,868 18 B 5 329,664 1.79% 33 7,308 18 5 350,784 1.90% 34 4,954 19 A F 5 237,792 1.29% 35 8,557 20 5 410,736 2.23% 36 10,402 20 5 499,296 2.71% 37 8,112 21 F 5 389,376 2.11% 38 10,241 21 5 491,568 2.66% 39 14,374 22 5 689,952 3.74% 40 13,126 23 A 5 630,048 3.42% 41 11,872 23 A 5 569,856 3.09% 42 19,406 24 B 6 931,488 5.05% 43 20,021 24 6 961,008 5.21% 44 12,630 25 A F 6 606,240 3.29% 45 24,829 26 6 1,191,792 6.46% 46 29,457 26 6 1,413,936 7.66% 47 21,626 27 F 6 1,038,048 5.63% 48 30,603 27 6 1,468,944 7.96% 49 41,939 28 6 2,013,072 10.91% 50 36,021 29 A 6 1,729,008 9.37% 51 35,472 29 6 1,702,656 9.23% 52 56,983 30 B 7 2,735,184 14.83% 53 56,661 30 7 2,719,728 14.74% 54 38,503 31 A F 7 1,848,144 10.02% 55 74,230 32 7 3,563,040 19.32% 56 85,445 32 7 4,101,360 22.23% 57 59,283 33 A F 7 2,845,584 15.43% 58 92,527 33 B 8 4,441,296 24.08% 59 122,976 34 8 5,902,848 32.00% 60 100,863 35 A 8 4,841,424 26.25% 61 109,034 35 8 5,233,632 28.37% 62 169,607 36 8 8,141,136 44.13% 63 162,123 36 8 7,781,904 42.19% 64 120,676 37 F 8 5,792,448 31.40% 65 224,101 38 B 9 10,756,848 58.31% 66 248,019 38 9 11,904,912 64.54% 67 162,420 39 A F 9 7,796,160 42.26% 68 282,167 39 9 13,544,016 73.42% 69 361,788 40 9 17,365,824 94.14% 70 283,201 41 F 9 13,593,648 73.69% 71 337,050 41 9 16,178,400 87.70% 72 504,977 42 9 24,238,896 131.40% 73 463,364 42 A 9 22,241,472 120.57% 74 378,406 43 A 9 18,163,488 98.46% 75 673,620 44 B 10 32,333,760 175.28% # is Armor, 80% for Fast and 65% for Air. 60% for Air and Fast. B means Bounty Increase A means Air F means Fast Notice that very rarely you will get Fast Air levels. 48 units spawn per quadrant of the map. That's 24 units per player. Past level 50 the unit selected will be random, but for air levels it will obviously be an Air unit, for non-Air it will be a Ground unit. |
| 06-17-2004, 03:07 PM | #4 |
Life is a real value, therefore it is possible to do decimal damage. Though damage is an integer, it is coverted to real before it is applied to a unit (because of armour and armour type reductions). I guess that's the only point of information I can give you. At least you bothered to do the math for you unit balancing, that's already better than the standard pull-numbers-outta-your-ass method :) |
| 06-17-2004, 04:19 PM | #5 |
I chose exponential because I want it to be hard, but still not so hard that no novice could play the game. You'll notice my first 10 levels are very easy, barely exceeding 700 hp. The next 10 levels, and even the next 10 or so after that are also quite easy. However past that, you get a whole lot of HP gains that are almost random every level. And the first Fast Air levels which I know will be a challenge. For Difficulty Levels, I have Very Easy to Very Hard, with the difficulty determining unit speed. Very Hard is, I believe, 440. So if I want a Fast unit to be, well, as fast as can be, I think it's only right that it gain 72 speed. The Easiest difficulty uses either 230 or 260 as base unit speed, so in comparison it makes it far easier to maze because each tower becomes far more effective. I didn't like how TDs rarely adjusted the actual effectiveness of each tower, but simply stacked on more lives and created near-impossible 'Impossible' or 'Perfect' difficulties. In my TD the effectiveness of each tower is directly related to the difficulty mode. However, enough about my TD. I want to see these suggestions, come on! I'm sure you all have great ideas and as long as you are thorough, the race will likely get into my TD. I want several races to implement! |
| 06-19-2004, 10:38 PM | #6 |
Bump! I am still, still looking for people to submit their own race ideas! Don't you want your own ideas in a TD? |
| 06-20-2004, 12:06 AM | #7 |
I do, that's why I'm making my own. |
| 06-20-2004, 12:52 AM | #8 |
That's not very helpful, I'm trying to do this because I think that some people have genuinely good ideas, and for some reason choose not to share them. Additionally, I am displeased with the lack of consumer participation when it comes to map releases, in fact, many authors ignore balance issues that come up when a map is released or prefer to think of their maps as 'perfect' and thus not needing a fix when it does. This has occured with Dr_Hack and his Enfo, which hasn't been updated in over 6 months. The result is that those who chose to unprotect it and fix all the errors are now more popular than him, and the game plays much better. |
| 06-20-2004, 02:12 AM | #9 |
What ideas do you want exactly? I have an idea for a tower that I think would be pretty bitchin... |
| 06-20-2004, 04:35 AM | #10 |
Doca-Cola, that is one hot babe, but that's just her face! Edit: Now I'm confused. That's a different babe. Ok, I digress, I am not looking for particular towers. I am looking for race ideas. Ergo: Human, or from Skibi: Scarlet Knights. Even if you have very broad ideas, with a little thinking you can make it from just a fuzzy idea into something I could easily implement. Just set your mind to figuring out some background and history of the 'race' and what techniques they use. List a few tower names, tower upgrades, and tower abilities. Tell me what kind of tech tree they would have, and give the race a name. And then you're set! |
| 06-20-2004, 05:00 AM | #11 |
Gearhead, it's a php image script, displays a random image from my sig directory |
| 06-20-2004, 05:38 AM | #12 |
I already looked through 1.jpg/#.jpg. I'd prefer you replied with information about a race idea, though. |
| 06-20-2004, 05:56 AM | #13 |
If I had em, I'd post em, but I only have individual tower ideas. |
| 06-20-2004, 10:22 PM | #14 |
Post away, then. I guess nobody else feels like giving their mind. |
| 07-21-2004, 08:41 AM | #15 |
The Tare Morphing Tree: [Below] Command Space: | A1 | B1 | C1| D1 | | A2 | B2 | C2 | D2 | | A3 | B3 | C3 | esc | Morphing Tree: A1a--> A1b--> A1c = A2a--> A2b--> A2c = A3a--> A3b--> A3c B1a--> B1b--> B1c = B2a--> B2b--> B2c = B3a--> B3b--> B3c C1a--> C1b--> C1c = C2a--> C2b--> C2c = C3a--> C3b--> C3c Ultimate: A3c + B3c + C3c = D2a--> D2b--> D2c The Tare [+] High Splash [+] Low Cost [-] Low Damage [-] Slow [-+] Many Upgrades (Low Cost adds up but micromanagment) |