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Tips: Getting the most out of AMAI

11-10-2004, 12:01 PM#1
thenonhacker
If you have beaten AMAI always, whether normal or insane, that's a sign you're being trained better and better. To expand on that:

1. Try test yourself by playing vs real human players, whether Local Area Network or Battle.net. Post replays of your games that show how improved you are because of AMAI. I did this before, and with a new account, I can't believe I can beat those at Level 20 (new AMM).

2. Try AMAI Insane, 1 vs 1 (I persoanally do not like this, heheh).

3. If you do not prefer AMAI Insane, play several games VS AMAI 2.41 Normal as Human or Night Elf. Based on aggression configs, AMAI is very aggressive on those two races. Especially if AMAI is Undead (highest aggression I've seen).

4. Expose yourself to Micro-Training maps. The best one I've found is Micro Training 0.93 (http://www.microtraining.prv.pl/). And later, AMAI is planned to have a similar micro behavior as that map.

5. Use replays analyzers along with watching replays. Check your APM. For some reason, WCG winners have higher APMs. Meaning, you can also try improving your micro when engaged in a battle (despite known AMAI circumventions). See #4. Who knows, one day we can reach 200+ APM!

6. Try out exotic stategies. In Warcraft III, trying out new stategies is a risk, which you cannot take on competive play like in BNet. Which means, even if new stategies are risks, find out ways to improve the strategy with tactic tweaks and finally win against AMAI.

7. Always get the latest AMAI version. Report AMAI bugs with supporting replays. These will help the AMAI Team improve the AI, and one day, will make AMAI unpredictable like real humans. :)
11-10-2004, 10:28 PM#2
FieldMedic
8. If you can now beat any AMAI opponent in 1vs1 with a hand behind your back even in Insane, try to beat some allied AMAI all by yourself 1vs2 , 1vs3 etc ...
A bit more difficult :)
11-11-2004, 01:28 AM#3
thenonhacker
Whoah, never tried that before, but considering I had a 2v2 game and my AMAI ally suicided, and I still won, I would like to try that. :)
11-11-2004, 07:49 AM#4
Zalamander
WargHs(betatester) record is beating 5 AMAIs on (6)Gnoll Wood 1vs5.

But it's not with this version so it's not very likely to happen again. :)

He usualy beats Insane 1on1 or normal 1vs2 on many different maps with different races.

His oppinion is that it's easier to beat 2 normal 1vs2 than it is to beat 1 insane 1on1.
11-11-2004, 03:21 PM#5
Quitch
This is probably as much caused by the poor coordination between AMAIs as anything else.
11-12-2004, 12:58 AM#6
thenonhacker
@Quitch: Well, AMAI is far from being human-like yet. :) For the meantime, we can enjoy beating vs2 or vs5 AMAI's. Looks like you've gone a long way beating AMAI, you can try Tip#1 above. I believe you can beat Level 20's by now at BNet.

@AMAI Team: Hmmm, though for me, this is low-priority, I have an idea for team play. There should be special modules where 2 or more teams think as one brain, thus eliminating "conflicts of plans". They work as if they have one gold cache, one lumber stock, and one mind can control 2 main bases and 2 sets of armies. This is applicable to All-AMAI teams, not a mix of AMAI And real humans.

As a programmer myself, I know this would require new code different from the "1 vs 1" AMAI. So take your time, folks, you're two developers of AMAI, and we're here to support you in whatever way we can like bug reports, and suggestions (sorry guys, I don't have JASS knowledge yet).
11-12-2004, 07:34 AM#7
Zalamander
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonhacker
@AMAI Team: Hmmm, though for me, this is low-priority, I have an idea for team play. There should be special modules where 2 or more teams think as one brain, thus eliminating "conflicts of plans". They work as if they have one gold cache, one lumber stock, and one mind can control 2 main bases and 2 sets of armies. This is applicable to All-AMAI teams, not a mix of AMAI And real humans.

As a programmer myself, I know this would require new code different from the "1 vs 1" AMAI. So take your time, folks, you're two developers of AMAI, and we're here to support you in whatever way we can like bug reports, and suggestions (sorry guys, I don't have JASS knowledge yet).

Sadly I don't think it's possible with the AI at all, can't think of any way. making one AI play 2 bases with different colors is the closest thing I can think of but that won't work becuse it will not be able to keep the colors apart and not able to control more than one race at once.
11-12-2004, 07:52 AM#8
Quitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonhacker
@Quitch: Well, AMAI is far from being human-like yet. :) For the meantime, we can enjoy beating vs2 or vs5 AMAI's. Looks like you've gone a long way beating AMAI, you can try Tip#1 above. I believe you can beat Level 20's by now at BNet.

I've only played it the once in a 1v1 ages ago, so I wouldn't bet on it. I play pure team games.

However, since we're taking down Blizzard and AMAI in team games now with a fair amount of ease (even when we kick off pretty badly, we still comeback and win... though we're slowly learning lesson like not rushing the Orc base) we're planning to have a FFA between the three of us, throwing in an AMAI to liven things up a bit.

My money is on AMAI :)

I noticed, when watching a 4v4 of AMAI, that a lot of its stratergies seem to be very long term. Quite often is goes mass peons to start with, getting either its barraks or altar rather late. I wonder if this is why it's so easy to take down early on?
11-16-2004, 05:20 AM#9
thenonhacker
@AMAI Team: While I was analyzing the Team Replays, this idea came to my mind: A team of AMAI players having same profiles, which presumably should behave like one mind.

This is based on the obervation of Shadowstrike regarding Blizz's AI. Blizz AI in Team Games is overwhelming in battles because it strikes with all-armies together.

If we can have this option, even if we have to change a constant in a Script, that would be a welcome change! :) Something like, "Use One AMAI Profile for all team members in a side" = true/false;
11-16-2004, 01:23 PM#10
Zalamander
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonhacker
@AMAI Team: While I was analyzing the Team Replays, this idea came to my mind: A team of AMAI players having same profiles, which presumably should behave like one mind.

This is based on the obervation of Shadowstrike regarding Blizz's AI. Blizz AI in Team Games is overwhelming in battles because it strikes with all-armies together.

If we can have this option, even if we have to change a constant in a Script, that would be a welcome change! :) Something like, "Use One AMAI Profile for all team members in a side" = true/false;

No that will not make any difference actualy. they will use same name and choose same strategies more often yes, but thats all and the result would probably be wors.
11-17-2004, 12:45 PM#11
Quitch
On the upside, my GF, brother and I just lost a team game to AMAI. Maybe we took too long a break, maybe it's because we attacked the undead first, maybe it's because their personalities worked well together... anyway, 2.42 kicked our ass, so we'll need to get our revenge today :)
11-18-2004, 12:54 AM#12
thenonhacker
@Zal: What if we try it, and see how AMAI behaves if they have a same personality? Please, I'm excited about the results. :)