More invisibility weirdness

OK, so I've created a way to make a unit invisible at will for an indefinite period. I replace a given unit with a identical unit with the ghost ability. This isn't really practical on most maps, but my map is completely turn based, with a defined number of units, so it suffices. Only problem: because this is turn based, units are paused when it's not their turn to act. I've discovered that pausing a unit with the "ghost" ability or the "permenant invisibility" ability actually makes them both visible (oddly enough, a shade's invisibility detection also turns off when they're paused).

What makes little sense to me, though is that units which have the invisibility spell cast on them *do* remain invisible when paused (and better yet, the timer on buffs doesn't seem to tick when units are paused). This leaves me with an awkward solution: I can have a special unit (an invisible sorceress, for example) cast invisibility on any "ghost" unit immediately before they're paused. As ideas go, though, this one's pretty clunky.

Has anyone dealt with this problem before? If not, is there any obvious solution or ability I'm missing that would solve this problem?

PS - what does the ethereal ability do?

Ethereal makes it possible to just pass through the unit, same as if a unit was a ghost. This only works for units trying to go through it though, and thats probably so the units couldnt just wander straight through whatever they want. Ethereal is good for the shades, since it prevents blocking the enemy in on a melee game. Maybe instead of pausing the unit, make its type a peon, so that way it wont attack anything but other peons. Or maybe you can do another thing involving unit replacement. Make a unit thats the same and is invisible and all that, but it doesnt have an attack. I think pausing a unit makes it visible because it cant use abilitys while its paused, so maybe you can make a trigger that makes it stop every second instead of pausing it. Either that or make invisiblity last for 10 minutes or something and have it cast on an invisible unit every 5 or so minutes. Or even better, make it to were the units arent enemies, and then you wont have to pause them. Those are just a few things you can try.

Ethereal is used for sentry wards and stasis traps so they cant be placed in enemy expansions to block buidling, they can be walked through and built upon....Shades dont have the ethereal ability smart guy

if ur map is turn based, why does it need to have invisibility?

Oops, they have ghost. Sorry about that i messed up.

peons dont attack ANYTHING unless they are ordered to either, units cant just walk through units with ghost,


as for the problem, id suggest making a unit without a model and making thta unit cast invis on the unit that you want to be invisible

edit: also the unit should have no attack + be invulnerable and ethereal

Even in a turn based game, invisibility has uses. First, it lets units take a breather while they regenerate HP and mana. Second, as in D&D, attacking while invisible provides bonuses to damage.

The issue with pausing isn't so much preventing the units from acting on their own. Rather it's to prevent a *player* from moving units when he shouldn't be. Indeed, I have set up the units so that they can't even *target* each other, let alone attack.

oh lol i just noticed ur making wc3 tactics....anyways u said in D&D u mean like the pen+paper rpg right? cuz im pretty confused by what u said

Peons DO attack other peons. And anyway, you could just make it to were theres an identical unit somewere in the map, and when you dont want them moving just change them out.

peons dont attack any units, including peons except if they are ordered to attack move, or attack them

actually, I was refering to Baldur's gate and other games off of the same engine. I actually have no clue how pen and paper D&D works, but in the computer games based off of it, the first attack you make while invisible does extra damage (it's a "backstab" regardless of position)

I've made all teams on my map allied, and changed the "targets allowed" to prevent any unit from targeting another (attacks are all done by triggers that merely look like attacks). My point is that pausing inactive units isn't to prevent them from going off on their own and doing random stuff. It's to prevent a human player from ordering units to do inappropriate things (like moving when its not their turn). By pausing a unit, and making it "inert" it's impossible for a player to "cheat" and move units when its not their turn. But invisibility's an issue, because if I can see enemy invisible units, I can target them with spells, for example, and prevent them from getting "surprise attacks" on my units.

cool.... in the version i have (its an earlier one) sometimes the units would start moving really slow, is that fixed?

also... could u give me a link to thta thread plz?

Im gonna stop argueing with you, since you dont seem to know what your talking about anyway. And why dont you base it off of Neverwinter Nights? It uses the most recent versions of dnd and also the most recent monsters. Its the most geek you can get from your computer unless your part of some on-line dnd group that sits at a computer 24/7 and takes breaks to lick envolopes to send away for your weekly 500$. But Neverwinter is really the best to base it off of, since its not as hard to understand as baldurs gate's dnd rules.

Oy. I'm not basing my map off of dungeons and dragons (indeed, I've never played a pen and paper version of it). There's a single *concept* which I am incorporating in my combat system called a "backstab." I'll grant that it's poorly named, since it has nothing to do with position, but If I am invisible, and I walk up to you, surely it makes sense that it will be easier for me to hit you than if you could see me walking up to you. I don't think that's very hard to understand. For all I know, neverwinter nights uses the same concept, in any case.

Anyway, I think I have the technical aspects of this pretty much figured out now. Pity it never occured to Blizzard that people might want to make units invisible (or any other buff for that matter) at will, or we'd have triggers that did that in a single action without the need for any of this silliness and finagling. Ah well.

btw, my thread is at http://www.wc3campaigns.com/forums/s...&threadid=3901 . The map there is more of an interactive demo than a playable game, though. I think I know why that bug is there, but since the new version I'm working on doesn't incorporate any of that code, I never really bothered fixing it.

I know, but baldurs gate 2 is based off of some really old dnd rules. The new rules call it sneak attack. And you can add an attack for if the enemy tries to run away or gets caught up on other units called an attack of opertunity. And something else i just thought of, since the damage normally shows up when you hit them, make a critical strike ability that doesnt do more damage and doesnt have an icon. That way it shows the damage and doesnt do more. Just set the 2 in the data to 1 and the 10 to a 100. Only thing is that some units have a animation that they play when they do a critical strike or bash. Mountain king and the blademaster are just 2 of them, i think that a few other units have it too, like the shadow wolf. Maybe you dont care about my ideas, which is ok since its your game, im just telling you what i know about the game.

Yeah, "sneak attack" is way more accurate in describing what's going on there. In general, I agree that baldur's gate is full of unintuitive concepts like thac0 and its strange armor class system. Except for that one idea, though, I'm steering clear of it entirely, with respect to inspiration.
I'd considered something like what you describe with opportunity attacks, but I have counter attacks, which are different, but which fill the same strategic "niche," in a sense. I'd considered using critical hit effects as you described. My problem is that I'm varying damage with triggers (so I have more freedom in how I assign damage), so I don't think it's possible since in many cases, the damage that warcraft detects isn't the damage that is actually applied. It's a good idea, though, and I'm just waiting to see somebody put it into an rpg-type map.