Reasonable doodad limit?

I'm making a map, and I've allways wanted to have good looking and interesting terrain, so I usually end up adding a lot of plants and other environment doodads on the ground, however, this map is supposed to be played, so I would like to know if anyone has any experience about how many doodads are reasonable for a map.

The current map is 128x128, has 9500 doodads (3500 of those are trees), I won't have a lot of units on the map though, probably 15 or less at the same time, except for like 20-50 critters...

Should I cut down on the amount of doodads, or is the gameplay smooth with these amounts of doodads?

most current computers can get to around 15,000 doodads before lagging

hmm, haven't experienced lag due to massive doodads on a playable map.

But I guess lag was mostly because of triggers with leaks and custom models.

Perhaps not lag in the way of server lag, but more as in older comps getting slowed down.

Another question on the topic, would it lag/get slowed down if I use small scaled shrubs as grass, I'm only having this in small areas atm, but in these areas you can easily have 1000-2000 doodads on screen at a time.

Don't worry about it until you hit around 15.000 doodads. My Silvermoon for CaQT has close a bit over that and runs completely smoothly on a normal pc.

its fine unless the doodads are animated, such as flames. if they're flames, you shouldnt have very many at all or computers will shit out.

Yes, stay away from MANY unimportant 'animated' objects. Trust me, that WILL lag if you have to many.

I was playing an epic sized terrain with tons of doodads and stuff in it, and my comp was fine. It was the animated doodads that lagged the weaker computers. Just go ahead with it.
~Azhag~

Im not sure how it works, but If someone were to have about 3000-4000 doodads visible at a time, (this being because the camera may be lowered, causing it to have sight of about 3000 range ahead.) Would the Polys of the doodad all combine and lag you to shit if you have vision of them?

My comp can handle 8k doodads on average on screen at once, though only about 200 animated ones at once. So unless your getting REAL heavy with the doodads, you should be fine.

Im curious as to how mappers are able to get to 15,000 doodads. Every time I get to around 8,200 doodads it says i have exeeded the doodad limit. Is there a way to increase the limit? (I know there is ive seen it on many maps) so I guess a better question is...How do you do it? Please help me out ^_^!

Hm, it used to be done with WE No Limits, but someone told me it doesnt work on newer patches...

SCFreak just released a new version. Works with 1.20 and removes *ALL* the anoying pre built limits.

Remember however that Wc3 is not optimized for cinematics and large numbers of doodads rapidly precipitate lag.

A bit off topic, but, does it including the 14 clifflevel limit? The usual trick, a custom miscdata.txt, doesn't help with that, even if you increase the max terrain height, attempting to add more cliffs would simply loop back down to the lowest cliff (with the default terrain height limits, it wouldn't let you do that).

I know blizz cliffs suck for showoff or cinematic terrain, but I hit this limit while making a playable map, and while I was able to complete it within the 14 clifflevel range, I really need to be able to go above that if I want to make a sequel (not that the original map is finished yet, as usual, my ideas are way ahead of my production capabilities :) ).