Copyright Issue

Alright, i have an interesting problem. So heres the situation:

I'm creating a map based off some triggers and terrain done by other people (TheBlackmage, Timeling and IAmTheWalrus.) Until recently, i gave them full credit (i'll get to that in a moment.) However, TheBlackMage demanded that i hand over an unprotected copy of my work, giving me multiple reasons that changed every time i asked him (he was lying through his teeth. Some of the better ones included "Quality Control" and "I Just Want To Look At Them." However, i responded by saying that he could have all the triggers he made, but the ones i made from scratch were mine and he wasn't getting them. He then started spouting copyright stuff, claiming a whole bunch of bullshit, including Copyright > EULA when i pointed out that techincally he owns nothing thanks to the EULA. He then also took the issue to the Invision FreeBoards people, who promptly removed all reference to the map in question from the forums.

During the same conversation where TBM demanded the map and gave no decent reason, he also insulted me and my family and made threats against the site (which he carried out.) As a response, i removed TBM's name from the Credits, BUT NOT THE TEAM. He is still credited (Reads - Thanks to Timeling and IAmTheWalrus, as well as all other members of the CotM Team.) He then responded by trying to get me banned from the forums, claiming that i was saying his triggers were mine. Another issue he claimed was that the EULA doesn't count, as we're all minors.

There are a few things to note:

Until now, i have given him full credit for the stuff (And in fact still have, i just said the credits thing to piss him off, i have no intention of leaving him out of them and will remedy this as soon as the issue is over.)
I have never, EVER, said his work was mine.
I have no qualms about giving him his work and even the stuff i edited. I simply refused to give him the stuff i made from scratch.
I gave him the JASS script for all the triggers barring the ones i made from scratch.

I'm just curious if anyone here knows which "side" is right, as this issue is taking up alot of time and forum space, and is frankly pissing me off. I'd rather that i "lose" in the next 24 hours than it drags on for a week and i "win." I urge anyone (Diagas, TBM, anyone) not to delete this thread, as i'm seriously asking a question here, hopefully to avoid future conflicts like this.

Well, for what it's worth, you are not obliged in any way to give anything to someone else. Blizzard owns everything related to the game.

Sounds like he's sensitive to the possibility that you're just stealing his work and putting your name on it. However, he's being an arse about it. He's got no legal grounds, and at this point, he's got no decency either.

As has already been mentioned, there's no legal... thing that would grant anyone in this case any specific rights to do or not do something, so it's all just a matter of morals, however, these are not as absolute as laws are. They are subjective and different for every individual.

You feel it's right for you to keep whatever work you do to yourself, he feels he deserves to see what you've done on a map he originaly started. I can't and I won't judge who is right. I think you two need to work this out yourselves. Dragging the issue around the forums is just asking for a flamewar, like all those map protection/deprotection debates. It just displays a failure of communication on your part (I mean both of you, not just you you) and does neither of you any good.

I guess you are well aware of that, that's why you want the issue to be resolved quickly. All I can say is that the fastest (but, I guess, the hardest, at least for you) way is if you just give him the map he wants to see. However, it seems you aren't prepared to do that unless someone else tells you you're wrong. I'm sorry I can't do that.

I never insulted you or your family. I insulted your slow web server, which was a result of the routing that takes place from Australia to the United States. No possible way that is your family's fault, unless they control the internet.

Pheonix is using the argument that I am still there, in the credits, however, this map series was started ~1 year ago, by IamtheWalrus. and I, from scratch. We made our first version like that, but it didn't kick off. When we used the DoBRP UP versions to make our second, in the cinematics, loading screens, and quests, we gave proper crediting to every single person in their team, down to Zlixar, their web host. We did not attempt to defame anyone by using a blanket of "The original team."

And yes, your triggers (or most of them) are mine. Why? Because you woulden't have a map without my work. Go make a map from scratch and then you can remove all teh credits.


And yes, it's proven time and time again, EULA's do not bind to minors, only adults above the age of 18.

EDIT: Quoting from Google, a source I found supporting my claim:

Just give TBM the upprotected map when your done with it so he can look at it and improve it. If there's anything foul, or unreasonable about that, then you're a fool.

It really is that simple.
The CotM series itself is retired. I'm not stealing your triggers, which I could remake easily in WEU (damageadd, subtract, lifeadd, etc.)

Actually the EULA doesn't give any rights to blizzard besides that you can't sell things done with the editor.

It is perfectly legal to copyright maps. Even if blizzard claims something different the fact is that their EULA doesn't state anything about copyright

I have nothing against giving TBM the map once its finished. TBM seemed to get angry at me and lose himself when it turned out that the early alpha version, of which only i can and ever will see and which approx 20% of the work is done, turned out to have no credits, as i saw no point for them. Then i hastily added some credits to the map to shut him up, but because i couldn't remember the names of all the CotM team off the top of my head.

As i said before, if TBM can wait till the map is finished, i'll give it too him, the only reason i don't want to give it to you now is that i don't want to see a "Improved" version popping up from you, frankly if you hadn't lost my trust, i wouldn't have this problem. But if you can just hold your ass and wait till its finished beta testing then i'll give you a UP copy. Happy?

This has been resolved. Thank you. :-)

For future reference:

Intellectual property is automatically the property of the person who made it, except when you are doing a job to create it, then it is the person/firm you are working for.

However, whether or not triggers count as intellectual property is highly debatable (just like every other part of the copywrite laws).

You would also have to prove damages, which there are very little, since you stopped the map, and since you cannot sell anything you made.

Basically, if anyone says they understand it without being a barrister of judge, then they are probably lying or mistaken.

However, if you have evidence of him threatening you...that's a highly serious criminal offence, I believe?

if you made it, its yours, and he cant demand any of what you made. As long as you give him credit for what he made, he has no right to mouth off to anyone.

You cannot legally claim ownership of a map made with WE, as you have to agree to the user agreement, which gives ownership of it to Blizzard.