No heroes; no builders. Ideas, anyone?

Let's do a bit of brainstorming.
What kind of interesting map could we make, with no heroes, and no builders?
Any ideas, anyone?

Here's one to start us off: Four players, each controlling an "Assassin" unit, who have to sneak through a castle full of guards to kill the King at the end.

Make game view first-person, make movement controls be arrows or asdw.

Well, maybe you could do something like you have an army that can't be resurrected, while the enemie which is a computer has heroes and builders, like your final hope to win in the war, if not, your whole nation will be destroyed. You just have those troops cause the others died in previous battles. Or if you want, nor the computer got heroes and builders. You can make it multiplayer, and you will need a great strategy to defeat the other band, cause you got no more units.

Uberleet?
Have you ever played a map that uses arrow key controls on B.Net?
You can't. They lag unbelievably. :-S

Maps that uses arrow keys are weird in Wc3, because if you keep pressing it doesn't continues moving, so I would prefer not to do that.

Alfred, if you ever figure out WASD, tell me. (You slacker I know you won't =) )
Seen it already, they used non-homing attacks from the guards so you could dodge.

The arrow key thing, some games work like that, just needs better triggers. Like, a player press 'up key' then it causes the unit to just keep moving. then one like a player releases up key. Ya know what i mean... i've seen it done, but I suck ass at jass. so i couldn't manage to do it.

Uberleet: There are simply too many obstacles to making an FPS in TFT. I believe the most successful one so far is FPS Mod (Completed Project), but making multiplayer is difficult.

The main problem with arrow keys is that most games require arrow key responses to be instantaneous, whereas lag is unavoidable in Wc3. Arrow key games are very very possible multiplayer, they just have to account for the large margin of error a player has between input and input being registered.

Theory: The key difference between Wc3 and any FPS/Action multiplayer game is this. In most FPS/Action games, after input (say pressing A), the player's screen immediately registers that action (say by moving the player to the left), THEN tells the server what is happening. In Wc3, after input (say ordering a unit to move somewhere), the server has to be told, THEN the unit moves. As such lag will cause noticable unresponsiveness in Wc3 but there is still an illusion of responsiveness in FPS/Action multiplayer games (it might jerk and teleport you, but you feel as if your inputs are immediately registered).

So keyboard input is not impossible in multiplayer, it merely requires either a very very good host or a very very large margin of error in timing the input. For most purposes, mouse input is better because players don't expect precise registration from mouse inputs as much as they will be frustrated by laggy keyboard inputs.

Reminds me of the dumb racing game by Blizzard.

Oh Tim, how did you know I'm Alfred? :(

well we can allways make a sheep tag with some places hard to reach for the taggers and more easy rescuing...

or making a map where you control a small squad (say 3 troops each player:one medic and two gunners) and you need to rescue more troops on the way to reach the place you win (evacuation area)...and lots and lots of enemys dont want you to reach that place (zombies\enemy troops\demons\space orcs\insane hamsters-you name it!)

Actually, I'm working on something that's fairly unique, if unlikely to be popular.
It's closest to an AoS *shame* but it isn't.
Units spawn, but rush down randomly chosen paths across an open(ish) battlefield (no lanes), towards the enemy castle.
There are lots of random events, varying from a big boss monster spawning (which attacks everyone), to a necromancer spawning, which causes the dead to rise as Zombies until you kill him, to reinforcements for either or both sides (depending on who's winning).
It uses a third person camera system (which is why it'll be unpopular), which you can rotate around with the arrow keys (which means it is actually playable).
There are three hero "Classes", melee, ranged, and mage.
You select which one you spawn as. When you die, that hero is gone, and you respawn at level one, with no items, but you can if you wish, choose a new class. The heroes won't grow that much in stats from level one to level ten, so it's not as big a loss as it might be.
Interesting, no?

Hum, yep...
But there could be a class change...

If you choose "melee", you'll be able to, at level 10, upgrade your hero to, hum, either thief or warrior. That way, you could create a hero tree.

I thought about it, but on balance I hate systems like that.
In my experience, you always feel like you lost something when you Class Up.
Besides, I want the players to feel like just another soldier in a big battle.
The Champion (Melee hero.) has 900hp at level ten. A NORMAL melee unit has 550.
You are NOT very powerful, which is why I don't see knocking people back to level one as too evil.