Killing DotA

Now this does not concern map development per se.

This concerns increasing map popularity, stealing players from other maps (namely DotA), and making them stay.

Reason i am posting it here, because there is no other really suitable forum :/
Ultimately, its always the game devs who really think about these issues.

So.... Any ideas on how would anyone go about stealing all playerbase from DotA?

put a virus, programed to only delete dota on every computer in the world :p well i dont think there are many ways actualy, cept making another pointless aos that is better than dota, but then everyone would play that and....

- Rename your map as Dota 6.28.
- Host every game you play as Gn : Dota 6.27b -ar -sm -dm PROS Only

There are many opinions on this, but I believe that many people generally like to play DotA. It's supporters aren't as vocal as it's opponents, which often gives DotA a bad reputation and image. The game never touts itself as the best AoS or having any special elements i feel. It's mostly a market decision to stick with the game, as well as the virtuous cycle of network benefits (more games made leads to easier and quicker game cycles).

There are noble and vicious ways to win market share.
- Establish more a professional marketing team for your game. Most map-makers often neglect the vital role of marketing, beliieving that quality will attract gamers.
- An open policy of banning DotA discussion (not addressing the issue)

Yeah, lets all make really crappy versions of dota and use the same title and loading screen. When people play, the heroes will all be kids with crappy abilities or something. Like sheep throwing ones. Then, dota will lose thier fan base and people will start waking up. Like when all television cable goes out in the neighborhood and all the kids start walking out into the street rubbing thier eyes.

Naaaaa, it will never happen.
--)---------

So far the marketing team suggestion sounds the best to me :/

The problem is, if you look at why DotA is popular, it's because of qualities that no sane mapmaker would ever want to include in their map.

For example, it has a lot of heroes, half of which are totally unthemed and just seem to have random abilities.
It's easy to learn, it has no depth.
You get a real sense of reward when you're winning, once you die it's nearly impossible to catch up.
The items are powerful, if you don't know the exact item set your hero is supposed to have, you'll lose.

DotA has mastered conditioning its players its true. And any map that hopes to beat it will have to provide the same in terms of player conditioning.

Furthermore, DotA has the advantage of being the first in the field of "designed for addictiveness" custom WC3 games. Therefore most of player base is already hooked on it, and any map that tries to beat DotA will have to find ways to "unhook" them.

Its very difficult to advertise to serial DotA player though.
They will only look for DotA name in games selection list. They are unlikely to actively read any other WC3-related sites, but dota-allstars. So its a bit of a problem.

Make a map with unbalance and possible abuse, where when used you still get the *double kill*, *wicked sick* etc.

Dont try to be complcated, make maximum 1-2 complicated spells per Hero and the rest just give them basic abilities so they can comprehend them.

Here's my thoughts.

You all hate Dota, generally because its an addictive, shallow game.
You want to steal all the small-minded, selfish, glory hunters for your own map?

You're crazy.

Plus, sabotaging Dota would probably make it better.

@ Whitehorn
What really pisses me off is that every year DotA is coming closer to pro sports arena. It already has guilds playing it regularly and addictively and small-scale tournaments are hosted.

This map we all believe to be a piece of game design crap is basically becoming WC3's Counterstrike. Are you comfortable with that thought? I know i'm not.

If someone suceeds in sabotaging it, it will either become a better game, or will vanish, which is a win-win situation for wc3 custom game community.

In order to achieve this, a map which rivals DotA in popularity and surpasses it in gameplay must appear.

@ Fulla
Actually basic abilities work in very many instances a lot better than any of the triggerable stuff.
For instance, you won't really find a hero more rounded and varied in playing styles than Farseer modification, which has bloodlust as 5th hero ability.

yeah, wc3campaign members should make our own right now! :D

I'm not a fan of football(Euro), but I don't go around sabotaging it and its fans. if people want to worship shallow games, leave them to it.

I forgot to add,

- Base the map of something thats already very popular redo it a little bit.
- Host a website with lots of info on the map (I have to give it to them, it is quite impressive).

Can also be useful if
- you host the map on every possible wc3 site.
- have a team or guys devoted to you to go around on each realm hosting games for dl only.

Football is a bad comparison. Since there is no modding community behind football and no people trying to develop new games based on it.

Also i think the adoption of the whole "sabotage" term kinda derailed the whole thread.

Let me restate the question in more clear form.

Suppose you set out to create an AoS style map, and wanted it to be hosted at least as frequently as DotA, while still maintaining high gameplay standards so as not to become another DotA.
How would you go about:
1) Managing your fanbase so it grows and competes with DotA's for players.
2) Deciding which map features to implement and which not.
3) Doing any other things necessary to reach the goal stated above.

The idea is not as much to sabotage DotA, as to release the game which surpasses DotA in its current form on all accounts, including both gameplay and popularity among wc3 players.

@Fulla:
Hosting map on dl sites, having dl only hosts on all realms and making a great website - all great ideas. Duly noted :)

Well I can see how DotA perpetuates it's own popularity. Personally, I don't see how it ever got popular in the first place but many people don't want to bother experimenting with unknown games. They may waste 10 precious minutes on a game they don't understand or enjoy. Even longer if they had to find it on the web and download it to their map folder and host a game.

I guess with all of us working on our own pet projects we crowd the market with such a bewildering variety that nothing stands out. I am working on one such map as I speak and of course I hope it gets some popularity. What it would take to steal some of DotA's thunder would be for a community such as WC3Campaigns to rally behind one particular map, something made by one of us, and blitz websites and the custom games list on bnet with it. I think the game list is the most likely avenue for people to try out new games, it's a lot easier than finding maps on the net.

If a whole community of map-makers pooled there efforts in developing and beta-testing a map, I think you would have a chance at "killing DotA."