What is balance in an AOS for you?

I've been remaking my map and I'd like to know how you guys think a balance in an AOS SHOULD be. Opinions may vary, but i'd like to get the overall picture.

- Counter-ability. Everything should have a counter. Having said this, don't make abilities and stuff too easy to counter, as that isn't fun.

- Items that complement, but don't uber-ate. They should be able to give a hero that edge, but shouldn't make them more than 50-100% more powerful in total, using the most powerful items (these would only be there to make sure that the game does end, and normally wouldn't be reached).

- Strengths and weaknesses. No hero should be good at everything. Nor should weaknesses be all destroying. Don't take this one to extremes.

- Having said that, all heroes should be able to at least damage other heroes and push reasonably. They don't have to be fantastic, but at least capable of doing something.

- Reasonable survivability. Heroes should not go down in 1 second to normal attacks EVER. Or 20 seconds of normal attacks from a hero for that matter. Abilities must be needed to kill enemies (unless they are complete idiots/on low hp/surrounded). Ultimates may be powerful enough to take down enemy heroes within a short period of time, but should be dodgable in some way.

- Spawns mustn't be cannon fodder. Also, if one team loses their spawning capabilities, have the equivilent spawning capabilities on the other team no longer give gold (different unit with same stats), otherwise it is unfair.

Interesting points. I agree at the fact that no hero should be good at everthing. Do you think heroes should have "roles", as in, one good at pushing, one good at hero killing, etc?

Additionally, about spawns, should they be hard to kill, mediocre, or easy to kill?

Currently it takes a melee around 7 or 8 hits to kill a creep at the beginning of the game and as the game goes on they upgrade, making that amount of hits be reasonable for the entire game. How much hits should creeps be dealt with before getting killed?

What about cooldowns, what do you think is best for ultimates and normal abilities?

I would like to see an AoS where you can't max out all of your abilities, and different abilities have different purposes. So you could either be a really good hero killer, but have very poor pushing abilities, or have decent in both, but lack in survival, etc.

However, having dual roles is good. For example, a hero can heal and deal damage, or can disable heroes and kill towers, or can push and kill heroes, but poor vs. towers.


Depends on the numbers, but you should never have a situation where spawns are largely irrelevent. Having said that, heroes should be able to make a considerable difference.


Short for normal abilities or it is boring (~6-10), though it will vary from ability to ability, so some (mostly summons/semi-passives) would have to be longer.

Ultimates normally ~90-150. Long enough to make you think, but short enough to encourage their use.

Personally, I like a hero that has a well rounded setup, meaning that even if he's a hero-killer, he can have 1 ability that allows him to get out of trouble for example. You should keep in mind that some 80% of all heroes shouldn be able to kill 80% of all heroes with that I meant that there shouldn't be a certain death or certain kill for your specific hero. Sure, if you get a ton of items, there's no reason why u shouldn't be able to kill anyone, and thats fine.
Creeps are creeps as far as I'm concerned, a creep shouldn't pose any threat to a hero, but 4 creeps should be capable of pounding a hero easily in the early and say early mid stages of the game. And of course, a little linear growth in creep power is a must. That's just my oppinion though

I've just had an interesting idea - making the computer's handicap gradually increase as time goes by. This would mean that towers would be easier to kill at the beginning than at the end, and make the beginning much more significant, probably shortening the game.

Im tierd of seeing AOS's where heros have the same 3 rolls. (and allot of AOS maps just smack em all together and build only all purpose heros)

- Hero killers
- Pushers
- Tower killers

Why not toss in some healing / support heros who can also hold their own against the uba hero killaz. Maybe some heros with good defensive abilitys, eg: Repair towers, ressurect towers, ext.

And dont make it easy for heros to just wipe a wave of incomign units. Heros should support the troops, not replace them. (unless you can get 40 people for an AV match =P)

The one I'm building has allot of summoning spells, so to counter that I'm developing an AoE spell based on Control Magic. Make some heros that use the other's skills against them.

Also I'm trying to get away from powerful permanent items. All my powerful items are charged, giving the player pause when deciding if they want to buy this nasty explosive device for 1500 gold when they only get 1 chance to get the most out of it.

But that's just me. I also like the creeps to be tough. Forces the heros to use spells on em rather than saving the mana up for an all-out hero kill. You make your map into the world you imagine, then worry about the rest during beta testing when you have people who have played it to ask.

Heroes who work well together, so teamwork is required.

That sounds like a spell that will be rediculously overpowered against some enemies, and useless against others. Avoid abilities like that like the plague, as they are not fun.

I like all of your guys' ideas. They're very nice.

But, don't underestimate a player's mind. People will always... ALWAYS find a way to abuse something.

By the way, heroes shouldn't depend on items that make them significantly stronger. If you do that, then it's almost like the heroes are helping the items, rather then the other way around. As everyone knows, many AOS's show that.

Maybe what makes AOS's like DotA good AOS maps is because it's not set to a mapmaker's standpoint. It's set to all of the player's benefits. Think about it: The terrain is not too bad, but who the heck in B.net thinks about the terrain?

I have an idea on how to regulate mana. You could turn every heroes' mana to 100, and only 100. It'd be like saying, "You have 30% out of 100%". This way, mana is easy to control. Isn't it?

You guys keep talking about roles. There are so many... but only about 1/7 of them are used...

DOTA isnt good because its gameplay. It isn't good at all. It's being played alot because of one thing, and one thing only; Publicity.
If you DO want balance in your map, make SURE you're not getting it from DOTA.

And if you do that, make mana-healing items inteligence based. More intelect = more mana. And do the same for spells anyway x) (not abilitys, just spells.) That would allow caster heros to "scale" better with items. eg: insteado f 6 inteligence boosting mana regen a bit and adding a bit of mana, it boosts damage AND mana regen, like strength boosts damage AND health, and agility boosts speed and armor. Because, we all know, caster heros dont go buying items to deal more phisical damage. They buy items that allow them to live longer and cast more spells.

team work is most important above all, for me. Its a team game, you whould be able to make winning much easyer to team up. I also like freshness, no cleche heros. And ofcourse, optimal customazation but keeping the filesize low, clever use of effects, that sorta stuff. Abilities dont have to all be ubar hax JASS skills, they should be clear, simple to use, and effective.

So, simplicity and teamwork.

Whoa! Wait! I know better then to copy off of DotA. It would be plagerizism anyways. I didn't mean good in the "good" that your thinking.

Blahhhh, just drop that subject. My understanding of DotA's "good" is complicated to explain.

But erwt, people kind of don't want teamwork... they want to be independent. A little bit like real life, I guess. And being independent must mean BE INVINCIBLE! :P