Arrows + Orbs

Hi all, I have a hero which has the following abilities:

1) Lethal Arrows (based on Poison Arrows to check for the buff)
2) Poison Arrows (based on a simple dryad's Slow Poison)

LA and PA, when not combined, overrides the system damage detection orb and so I can check for them easily; the problem is that when they're combined (arrows autocasted and passive poison), the PA stops hitting the target (of course, it's an orb!) and so I can only check for LA.
How can I solve this? I already tried the following:

a) Using a dummy unit with a poison attack to hit the target (PRO: it works, CONS: the attack is delayed from the hero's one, even if the dummy unit has 0 backswing etc... AND the poison damage is not caused by the hero...);

b) Trying a custom Lethal Arrows basing it on priestess' Searing Arrows (it is not an orb) (PRO: it stacks, CONS: it is very tricky to detect autocast and such things AND I suspect that it can be easily hacked since it's now based on "A unit is attacked and the attacker has autocast on" event);

c) Making a custom poison (PRO: uhm... nothing?, CONS: very very tricky )

Any help/suggestions? Thanks

You dont detect both.
Orb effects do NOT stack.

What you should do is this --
Have a single, global orb effect that all heroes have.
Then detect it, and trigger the effects based upon what you want to happen.

Actually all my heroes have a single orb effect to detect damage, you didn't understand my question...

If you use a single orb effect to effectively detect attacks when they hit, then any OTHER orb effect has to be triggered.

If for example you need to detect two different TYPES, and require the autocasting for an ability -- Use Incinerate.
Incinerate's orb buff will overwrite Slow Poison (Which is what I use for global attack detection) and allows you to detect the difference.
If it has the slow poison buff, it's a regular attack, if it has the incinerate buff, it's the autocasted attack.
Fully MUI, fully workable.

Dear Rising_Dusk, I am sorry to tell you that you still don't understand my question

Well, I already have an orb of cold to detect normal attacks on my map and the "Poison Arrows" ability works perfectly with my hero since it overrides the default orb of cold and so it can be easily checked.

The problem starts when I have ANOTHER ability on the same hero (apart from "Poison Arrows") which is a passive poison orb ability (nothing special, just a Slow Poison based ability). Now, I have 2 orb and the arrows override the passive one, so I need a sort of workaround to make the passive poison orb working. I already tried many options (see my first post) and I am asking for help to find a good one. Thanks

Trust me, yes I am. You're just misinterpreting what I'm talking about.
Read below.

Base the second "orb" ability on evasion and make it do nothing.
Then in your general damage detection trigger, if the hero's ability level for the passive "orb" ability (Evasion-base) is greater than 0 trigger a dummy unit to cast a dummy cripple with a custom buff on the target. (Making the dummy ability's level equal to the evasion-base level)
That's seriously the easiest way to do it.

Don't try some "dual orb effect" workaround, you're making it harder than it needs to be.
...And that's what I've been saying for three posts now. >_>

Then read the posts more carefully.

My first post:
As I said, this method has many side effects (last quote) and it's better to use an ATTACKING unit rather than a CASTING unit because a spell (either lv. 6) doesn't work on immune units, slow poison do.
So you think that this is the best method? What do you think of triggering "Searing Arrows" (I already tried and it's not an orb), too much tricky and hackable (I think so)? Thanks.

I think you're solution lies with creating your own custom poison effect (timer based). Trigger the effects like you do searing arrows

PROS:
You can have stacking damage per attack, whereas slow poison cannot (by stacking I mean, if the attacker attacks 5 times, it does 5 poison damage effects instead of just 1).

You can have variable poison damage over time, so 1 damage then 1 damage then 2 damage then 3 damage then 5 damage then 8 damage (fibonacci poison!)

You can make the slowing stack per attack (10% slow, but when the attacker attacks again it slows again by 10%, then again 10%... resulting in either 27.1% slow or 30% slow, however you design it).

You can have poison immune units, which nullify the effects of your custom poison ability, or even just poison resistant units.

CONS:
You have to go out of your way and spend hours redesigning a slow poison ability in JASS (gl in gui) just to have 2 effects stack.

Personally, I'd just accept that the 2 effects wont stack and become accustomed to it. It's one limitation that is quite the pain to get around.

Make your dummy cripple spell a hero ability that starts at level 6.
Then it will bypass magic immunity. (It works with Storm Bolt, don't quote me on this)

And seriously --
The triggered cripple is the BEST way to do it, no questions asked.
If the magic immunity trick I said above doesn't work, then it not working on magic immune units would be a sacrifice I'd be willing to make.

Searing Arrows is a stupid ability.
It doesnt leave a buff, but murders all other orb effects.
Therefore it makes attacks made with Searing Arrows absolutely undetectable.

And creating timers to moderate a custom poison would be very inefficient, especially if you factor in MUI.
You'd be monitoring multiple timers with multiple cache accesses that really aren't necessary at all.
I think if you wanted slow poison to be as perfectly recreated as possible, base a dummy skill on acid bomb with 0 projectile speed and just have a dummy unit with 0 backswing cast it on attack detection.
Seriously, I do it in AotZ several places. (With different dummy spells)

Thank you rain9441 for your ideas, but I think it would be too much tricky to handle (expecially if the unit is hit many time) :)

P.S: normal dryad's slow poison can be stackable too (both damage and slow effect).

1) A slowing ability (such as Acid Bomb, which I should use), even if lv. 6 doesn't slow an immune unit and doesn't deal decay damage, it just shows the buff; Storm Bolt works but it's different;
2) Searing Arrows STACKS with the orb of cold (the physical damage is detected perfectly);
3) I agree that using a custom poison would be nice but it's very tricky to make.

I think that the best solution remains using a dummy attacker unit with slow poison, what do you think?

P.S: rep added for so many answers and help.

Dryad's slow poison ability stacks per attacker, not per attack. If you have 1 guy with the slow poison ability and attack an enemy unit, it will become slowed for lets say 30 seconds. If you hit him again with that same unit, the slow poison doesn't do anything (even if you flag the ability as Stacking - Movement).

The only way it stacks is if you have 5 different units with the same slow poison ability (Marked Stacking - Movement), and all 5 attack the enemy unit. Then you get 5 slow poison effects at once.

You make think this is off topic, BUT, to relate it to your last post. If you spawn a dummy unit, give it the slow poison ability, and have that unit attack the target, you'll have you're stacking effect *per attack*. Since every attack spawns a new dummy unit, every poison effect is from a new unit. Make sure you turn off Stacking effects on you're slow poison if you don't want it. The alternative (if you want stacking per attacker) would mean that the dummy unit you create must be re-used, which is possible but is another problem you may have to face.

I think it's silly to do slow poison on a dummy attacker.
That's just me.

But, all I've done so far is explain how I would do it.
You're of course free to do what you see fit.

I have always found it easier to trigger all "orb-like" effects with my damage detection.
It just keeps things easy to manage for me.

Very useful informations, I didn't know that. I thought that it stacked "per attack" and I was not thinking that using dummy units there is a new attacker every time.
REP ADDED

I normally use spells too, but I can't understand why you wouldn't use a dummy attacker to simulate the poison. I mean, using acid bomb has side effects:

- What if the target has Spell Shield?
- Doesn't work on spell immune.