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A History Tale [Image Heavy] Terrainer Needed

06-25-2007, 12:50 AM#1
Setreal
A History Tale

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I certainly had to wait a while to post this here. Congrats on getting the site back up guys.

General Concept
"A History Tale" is most akin to the risk/strategy line of maps but takes a more civilization-esque approach to things while not being too overly complicated. Whereas in other strategy games the player often builds up a town similar to melee games in "A History Tale" all the non-warfare action is handled directly in your cities (there's a demonstration of this lower down in the post). Units spawn at regular intervals at each city you control and their numbers and types are dependent on a number of different factors (you can purchase additional units however). Each player starts with one city (there a bunch of neutral cities littered throughout the map and they will not go down without a fight) and seeks either to capture every other city on the map (except those of their allies) or win by popular vote in the League of Nations. I haven't thought of special modes yet but I'm likely to have alternate modes such as Permanent Alliances, Domination (where you would only need to control 65% of the map to win), etc.

Layout
ALL INFORMATION IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE BASED ON A WHIM, IDEAS FROM YOU GUYS, ETC. ETC.

When starting a new game this is basically what you would be looking at. You begin with your capital (the capital of Britannia is London) and a small force of units (which aren't there, I placed some footmen for vision reasons).

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In the top right is your personal multiboard that tells you your...

- Type of Government: You can switch between different types of government at will each of which have different advantages and disadvantages. There is a limit as to how often you can switch. You begin with Despotism which has no effects. You unlock different types of government as the game progresses.

Hidden information:
REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY
Advantages: Increased income from storehouses. Can spend gold to instantly finish researching a technology. Disadvantages: Decreased research rate.

OLIGARCHY
Advantages: Increased automatic military spawn rates. Unit ranks require less kills. Disadvantages: Decreased population growth rate.

LIBERTARIANISM
Advantages: Increased population growth rate. Increased population caps. Disadvantages: Decreased military spawn rate.

THEOCRACY
Advantages: Enables spawning of zealots. Religions have no disadvantages. Disadvantages: Can only ally with players of the same religion.

MONARCHY
Advantages: Enhanced military spawns. Recieve a random bonus lump sum of gold when the income timer expires because of the monarchy's dependance on stability. Disadvantages: Cannot change religions.

COMMUNISM
Advantages: Enables permanent alliances. Greatly enhances spy units. Immune to the work of enemy spies. Disadvantages: Switching to another type of government from communism takes three times as long as normal.


- State Religion: You can switch between different religions which, as with governments, have different effects on your empire. Each religion also has a special event that can only be used so often. There is a limit as to how often you can switch between religions as well. You begin with Paganism which has no effects. You unlock different religions as the game progresses.

Hidden information:
BUDDHISM (Anyone got any ideas?)
Advantages: ? Disadvantages: Weakened military spawns. Event: ?

HINDUISM
Advantages: Increased effectiveness of bazaars. Disadvantages: Cannot initiate the breaking of an alliance. Event: Moksha. The freeing of some of your people from Samsa-ra temporarily lifts your people's spirits, greatly increasing their fighting effectiveness near your cities.

JUDAISM
Advantages: Increased income. Disadvantages: Decreased population growth rate. Event: Exodus. Frees a nuetral city below # population from servitude. The city in turn joins your civilization.

CHRISTIANITY
Advantages: Increased military spawn rate. Disadvantages: Decreased income. Event: Crusades. Forces alliances between all Christian players and provides each player with a small crusader army.

ISLAM
Advantages: Allows the spawning of messengers. Disadvantages: None. Event: Pilgrimage. Sends all your messengers on a pilgrimage to Mecca. When they return you recieve a lump sum of gold based on the number of messengers you sent.

ATHEISM
Advantages: Greatly decreased academy cost. Disadvantages: Cannot ally with non-atheist civilizations. Event: Logic. Dramatically increases your research rate for 10 seconds.


- Income: Every 60 seconds you receive an income, a number directly related your total population and the number of cities you control (some buildings, religions, etc. also effect this). In this screen your income is 10,000 (for testing purposes) and to the right of that is the income timer which counts down to when you will receive income. Each individual city also has their own separate income where they receive 1 gold every 2 seconds (storehouses effect this number).

- Research: You research one technology at a time whose progress is displayed here by progress bar and by a numeral %. This prevents having to switch between multiple buildings to research a complicated maze of upgrades each with wildly unrelated prerequisites and allows for a nice streamlined techtree.

Hidden information:
ANIMAL HUSBANDRY
Stables

ARCHERY
Military Camp
Archers
Crossbowman
Longbowman
Guard Tower

ARTILLERY
Artillery
Artillery Posts

ASSEMBLY LINE
Factory
Infantry

ASTRONOMY
Observatory
Temple
Some religions

BANKING
Market
Bank

BIOLOGY
Hospital
Medic

BRONZE WORKING
Smith
Forge
Spiked Barricades

CHEMISTRY
Laboratory

CIVIL SERVICE
Some gov civics
Maceman
Courthouse

CODE OF LAWS
Town Hall
Some gov civics

COMPASS
Harbor
Explorer

CONSTITUTION
City Hall
Some gov civics
Fortifications

CONSTRUCTION
Storehouse
Catapult
Trebuchet
Fortified Walls

CURRENCY
Bazaar
Trading Post
Vault

EDUCATION
Academy
University

FLIGHT
Hangar

GUILDS
Knight
Horse Archer
Guard Tower

GUNPOWDER
Rifleman
Cannon
Cannon Tower
Manned Fortification

INDUSTRIALISM
Shipyard
Armory

IRONWORKING
Ironworks
Spearman

MEDICINE
Field Tent
Medical Center
Healer

MILITARY TRADITION
Barracks
Garrison
Improved Spiked Barricades

MONOTHEISM
Some religions
Monastery

POLYTHEISM
Some religions
Shrine

ROBOTICS
Airport
Factory

ROCKETRY
SAM Infantry
Flak Tower
Missle Silo

SATELLITES
Enables vision of entire map.
Radar


- Population: Each city you control has a population that grows by itself over time and can be sped / slowed by certain buildings, religions, etc. Population is a factor in how many units spawn at each city, are needed to upgrade a city's age (from ancient->medieval for example), income etc.

In the bottom right corner is the control panel for Ancient London. Every city's control panel will look almost exactly the same. From left to right and top to bottom.

- Manage City Buildings: Here is where you build and upgrade buildings for each city. Instead of having a worker go out and build them the city does this by itself.

- Manage City Defenses: Here is where you build and upgrade defenses for your city. This works identically to the Manage City Buildings tab. Currently this holds Construct Sentry Towers (Constructs 3 sentry towers to defend your city.) and Construct Wall (Increases defense of friendly units outside this city.). Ideas are welcome.

Here I have clicked on the Manage City Defenses tab and only have the option to construct scout towers (haven't filled this tab in yet).
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As you can see the city now has scout towers, without the use of a worker. I'm unsure whether I'm going to physically show all buildings your city makes or just the defensive ones. I'd like some opinions on this.
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Here I have upgraded the scout towers to guard towers by clicking the button again*. (Towers are now separately upgraded. So while you would build the sentry towers through the city, you upgrade them on a 1 to 1 basis)
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A look at the Manage Buildings tab. These are all the non-defensive buildings your city can construct. No looking for workers and no messy melee-style base. Everything is centralized in your cities.

Hidden information:
COTTAGES - Increases population growth rate.
Cottages
Hamlets
Villages
Towns

BARRACKS - Upgrades all further military units spawned at this city.
Military Camp
Barracks
Garrison
Headquarters

ACADEMY - Hastens the rate at which you research technologies.
Academy
University
Observatory
Laboratory

FORGES - ? (Used to be that it would speed up building construction, but this is impossible with the system I'm using for constructing buildings. Any alternative uses for this building are welcome.)
Smith
Forge
Ironworks
Factory

STOREHOUSE - Increases your city's personal income.
Storehouse
Vault
Bank

TOWN HALL - Increases the bonuses provided by your state government.
Town Hall
Courthouse
City Hall

SHRINE - Increases the bonuses provided by your state religion.
Shrine
Monastery
Temple

BAZAAR - Provides additional gold for every ally you have when the income timer expires.
Bazaar
Trading Post
Market

FIELD TENT - Slowly heals friendly units outside of this city.
Field Tent
Medical Center
Hospital

STABLES - Enables the spawning of mounted units.
Stables
Armory

HANGAR - Enables the spawning of some air units.
Hangar
Airport

HARBOR - Enables the spawning of some sea units.
Harbor
Shipyard

Note: Coastal cities can build harbors while non-coastal cities can build stables.


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- Manage City Military: As mentioned earlier units spawn by themselves. While this is great and all you will be using this tab alot anyway. This is where you can spend gold to get military units.

- Manage Heroes and Royalty: In this tab you can hire heroes (there are 2 for every civilization and if they die they are gone for good so be careful with them) and manage your royalty. Royalty are basically a costly passive bonus for a city. Each city can only have one member of royalty and each civilization has 5 to choose from.

Hidden information:
Heroes

Britannia
Richard the Lion Heart: Arthas with Frostmourne
Edward IV: Archmage

Roman Empire
Scipio Africanus: Blood Elf Lt.
Lucius Sulla: Paladin

Greece
Heracles: Beastmaster
Atalanta: Jaina

Persian Empire
Rostam: Orc Warlord
Memnon: Maceman (Custom Model)

Egypt
Menhit: Shandris (With Custom Skin)
Set: Bloodmage

Hispania
El Cid: Proudmoore
Hernan Cortes: Garithos

Germania
Sigfried: Gladiator (Custom Model)
Ailcun: Human Sylvannas

Arabia
Ali the Warrior: Demon Hunter (With Custom Skin)
Khalid ibn al-Walid: Mountain King

Mongols
Subutai: Axeman (Custom Model)
Jebe "The Arrow": Creep Spearman

Gaul
Charlemagne: Knight (I know this is an arguable place to put him, but I was desperate)
Clovis I: Alternate Campaign Paladin (Black Hair)


- Manage Research: You choose what your empire is researching here.

- Manage Wonders: Wonders are like other buildings except they provide some kind of global bonus and there can only be one on the entire map. If someone builds the Great Wall then everyone else is out of luck.

Hidden information:
THE GREAT WALL
Provides walls to all your cities that give a defense bonus to nearby friendly units.

THE TEMPLE OF SOLOMON
Increases your income based on how many other players share the same religion as you.

THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE
Provides bonuses to all of your current and future sea units.

THE PARTHENON
Increases the rate at which your heroes gain experiences and increases the levels of all of your existing heroes by 3.

THE PYRAMIDS
Enables all forms of government. Possible second bonus.

THE SISTINE CHAPEL
Enables all religions. Possible second bonus.

THE ORACLE
Instantly completes the technology you are currently researching. Slightly hastens the rate at which you research technologies.

THE HANGING GARDENS
Increases the population in all of your cities and slightly increases their population growth rate.

THE TAJ MAHAL
Significantly increases the bonuses provided by royalty.

THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS
TBD. Will factor into a peaceful way of winning.


- Manage State Government: Change your empire's government.

- Manage State Religion: Change your empire's religion.

In the bottom left there is a report button which prints out a detailed report on your city. You can also type -report for a report.
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In the bottom right is the option to upgrade a city from ancient to medieval and so forth. Whereas other games have global ages in "A History Tale" each city has their own age. Upgrading a city's age raises it's population, unlocks more units for automatic spawning and purchase, etc.

Other Features
- Full text trade/ally/etc. options. Trade, ally, unally, get a report, get a tutorial, etc. all through text options such as -help.

- 10 Civilizations each with two unique military units, two unique heroes, and five unique members of royalty. I'm thinking of allowing each civ the option of building an item shop for the hero units in which case each civ would have unique items as well.

- 11 buildings (not counting upgrades or defensive buildings) and 10 wonders that each city can construct. TDB number of defensive buildings, religions, goverment types, and technologies.

- 38 spawnable units (not final), 12 unique units (2 per civ), 12 unique heroes (2 per civ). Fight on the ground, across the seas, and through the air.

- Fun fast paced action that isn't too bogged down by city micromanagement while retaining a sense of strategy. (I hope!).

Progress
I'm not going to wow you with some magic progress bars. This is the down and dirty of what is done and what isn't.

- Base units and heroes (All units have been named and assigned to models. About half of the base units have stats. Heroes have no spells and the spells have not yet been thought up).

- Basic city tabs. (Made tooltips/buttons for the city interface. You can browse through all the tabs.)

- Base for City Buildings / Wonders. (All the buttons and tooltips are there for the buildings and wonders but their exact stats are not set. Most buildings are constructable. About half of Wonders are. Tooltips for most buildings need to be redone).

- Multiboard, Income System, Text Trading/Allying/Unallying, City Capture System are complete. Have basic outline for unit spawn system.

- Most religions and governments.

- Some chat commands. Still need to do the tutorial one.

- I would like to eventually add different modes such as Permanent Alliances, Domination (where you would only need to control 65% of the map to win), Barbarians (Players Vs Buffed Neutral Cities) etc.

There is alot to be done!

Interested?
I'd love to hear any ideas, criticism, etc. you guys have. You can post it here, e-mail me ([email protected]), or IM me (tivrames).

I also have some positions to fill for those interested...

Terrainer: 0/1 My terrainer dropped out a few days ago so this means I could really use a new terrainer (who would unfortunately have to work from scratch). PM, post, IM etc if interested.

Testers: ?/? (I'm not quite at the testing stage but it's never too early to take down names so just say if you're interested).

That's it! Thanks for reading I know it was a long post. PLEASE post your ideas, criticism, etc. I love ideas. I eat ideas for breakfast. Give me your ideas!
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06-25-2007, 01:03 AM#2
Ba1100n_Drag0n
((I'll read it, but...

First of all: Aren't you supposed to attach these screenshot things as thumbnails/attachments or something?

Not sure how but...))
06-25-2007, 01:20 AM#3
Aray
A history tale huh? Heard about butter on bacon?
06-25-2007, 01:25 AM#4
Setreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ba1100n_Drag0n
((I'll read it, but...

First of all: Aren't you supposed to attach these screenshot things as thumbnails/attachments or something?

Not sure how but...))

I'm not sure (took a quick browse through the rules and didn't notice anything). I replaced them just in case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aray
A history tale huh? Heard about butter on bacon?

Eh?
06-25-2007, 01:53 AM#5
Ba1100n_Drag0n
((Hahah, I just realized something...

You should only post that you're recruting a terrainer, not all the information. I suggest editting your post so it introduces what "A History Tale" is in basics, gives a link to the original thread, then you say "I'm looking for a terrainer." I suggest you post all this fancy information about it whatsoever (the gameplay and all) under the map development forums.))

Captain Griffen: This is false. In fact, this is complete rubbish, in that you need a considerable amount of information in any thread in here or in map development (and both if two threads).
06-25-2007, 09:19 PM#6
Gui
Hummm… Why, you does not make a test to see, if terrainer will be util the sufficient to make the project? I am a good one for terrainer (When he does not have no good one…), and always am training.
06-27-2007, 11:57 PM#7
warbucket
Someone has been playing Civ...

I personally love this idea.

If you want any help, I have moderate skills in most areas of map making, such as terrain, and GUI. I have played Civilization 2 through 4, so I might know where you're heading.

My email is [email protected], or you can contact me through the PM service.

Also, as said above, it would be better if you made one thread will all the game information on the Map/Campaign Development forum, and make another thread about recruiting in this Recruiting forum, with a link to the game information at the bottom.
06-29-2007, 06:08 PM#8
RPGOmen
Heh, those types of maps are always fun to make. The toughest part when it comes to that is scaling all of the doodads to be of appropriate size with the newly resized units (while at the same time make the trees look realistically bigger than them).

I remember doing something like this a long time a go in an open rpg World map type fashion. There were like eleven continents, all polished to the max with appropriately sized custom made doodads and incredibly large looking cities for only taking up about four squares. I like how you integrated the trees into the city in the example you showed.

I'm sure you could do a great job in terraining this map yourself if you have the time to do so; if not then I may help providing that you give me some more information on just what you want.

Some questions a terrainer who is interested might want to know:

1) Do you want a world-map like thing where the continents (if any) are shaped like they are in the real world? Or would you prefer just to have everything all connected together on the same piece of land for ease of movement?

2) Additionally, I noticed WCIII base trees in the screenshots, would you mind if whomever does the terraining uses their own custom tree doodads?

3) Also, in regards to your cities, do you want them walk-throughable? By this, I mean do you want your units to get the illusion of actually walking into the city when they are told to walk a path into it? By your description I gather that there will be points where you can take over or destroy your opponent's cities, but that can be done by simple adding a non-walkthroughable central office or castle in the middle of said city location. Therefore the town surrounding it is able to be walked upon by allied and enemy units as if a real siege was happening.

4) Is this going to be an epic sized map (if you're going with the continent idea it's probably best if it was)?



Some things to consider:

Making elevations on minature "World Map" type maps takes an incredible amount of patience, and you should look for someone who fits that description. Elevation techniques to make everything look better do not work on these types of maps as they just look like huge foothills as opposed to a diverse and interactive land.

Therefore, someone who is a master of using and placing doodads (or "polishing" the map) would be the most appropriate for the job, in my opinion.

If you're going to use custom units, you should give them to the terrainer so that he is able to scale everything appropriately with the terrain; scaling units takes a lot more steps than one might think and requires several steps, a lot of testing, and an equal amount of patience.

Additionally, you should inform what units you intend to use so they're able to do it on each unit. Heh, I remember that it took me close to three days to get the speed adjustment just right last time I did something like this (though I'm somewhat of a perfectionist). >_>;
06-29-2007, 09:49 PM#9
Setreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGOmen
Some questions a terrainer who is interested might want to know:

This is all information I gave to my previous terrainer but I'll post answers to your questions here as well as they are quite valid. Hope this helps.

Quote:
1) Do you want a world-map like thing where the continents (if any) are shaped like they are in the real world? Or would you prefer just to have everything all connected together on the same piece of land for ease of movement?

What me and Tulip decided on was a circle of land surrounded by water with a few islands in the ocean that surrounds the one continent. The player's starting positions would be evenly spread out across the edges of the circle. This keeps every starting position balanced (in the style of blizzard melee maps) and allows me to scale the difficult of nuetral cities as the players move inland. I'm open to different ideas though.

Quote:
2) Additionally, I noticed WCIII base trees in the screenshots, would you mind if whomever does the terraining uses their own custom tree doodads?

To me I think both blizzard trees and custom trees have their merits. Turnip wanted to work with the default doodads so we went with that. If someone wishes to use custom doodads that's fine as well.

Quote:
3) Also, in regards to your cities, do you want them walk-throughable? By this, I mean do you want your units to get the illusion of actually walking into the city when they are told to walk a path into it? By your description I gather that there will be points where you can take over or destroy your opponent's cities, but that can be done by simple adding a non-walkthroughable central office or castle in the middle of said city location. Therefore the town surrounding it is able to be walked upon by allied and enemy units as if a real siege was happening.

This is how the cities currently work. The main building you see in the center cannot be walked through, but the buildings surrounding it can. The terrainer doesn't need to do anything with cities though except leave open spaces for me to place them.

Quote:
4) Is this going to be an epic sized map (if you're going with the continent idea it's probably best if it was)?

The aim of this map is for shorter fast paced games and therefore a smaller map size. When the players explore they should always be encountering either a neutral units or the domain of other players. I'm thinking 192x192 but I'm open to suggestions (keep in mind this includes room for the ocean).

Quote:
Making elevations on miniature "World Map" type maps takes an incredible amount of patience, and you should look for someone who fits that description. Elevation techniques to make everything look better do not work on these types of maps as they just look like huge foothills as opposed to a diverse and interactive land.

Therefore, someone who is a master of using and placing doodads (or "polishing" the map) would be the most appropriate for the job, in my opinion.

Unfortunately I'm not in a place to be selective as I've gotten no offers. I have no issues going over the map myself and polishing though.

Quote:
If you're going to use custom units, you should give them to the terrainer so that he is able to scale everything appropriately with the terrain; scaling units takes a lot more steps than one might think and requires several steps, a lot of testing, and an equal amount of patience.

Additionally, you should inform what units you intend to use so they're able to do it on each unit. Heh, I remember that it took me close to three days to get the speed adjustment just right last time I did something like this (though I'm somewhat of a perfectionist). >_>;

I gave turnip my most current map at the time (with the object data of course) and would do so again for whoever becomes my terrainer. I have no reason to keep anything a secret.

Thanks for the questions.

EDIT: As for the people who are suggesting I make a second thread I'm just trying to find a terrainer at the moment. I think I'm fairly maxed on ideas so the only purpose it would serve is for publicity. I'll make a new thread once it comes time to testing. Thanks for the suggestion though.
06-29-2007, 10:15 PM#10
Ba1100n_Drag0n
((I'd be more happy with this map if it had Joan of Arc... that would be interesting... >>

Anyways, I'd offer to terrain, but I've been busy with many things. I can work on the terrain, only if you don't mind a slow progress. PM me if you're interested.))

((EDIT: I just saw the edit by Grifen, and meh. Sorry.))
06-30-2007, 01:28 AM#11
RPGOmen
Since I'm not 100% sure of how you want the single continent to be like, how about you just form it how you want in the center of the map and I'll work on it myself for you.

Personally, the thing I hate most when it comes to terraining a map is terraining the map. Haha, while that sounds sad, what I mean by it is if there's suppose to be a specific land in the middle of the map, I have trouble getting started with the "continents" shape (in terms of player force balance, at least, as I'm more of a RPG map maker). Afterwards I spend countless hours just polishing it up and making to look like a real world map paradise.


In other words, if you give me the dish, I'll place the meal on it.

Additionally, do you want a diverse set of lands on the continent? By this I mean, do you want one to be like a desert kingdom, one a snow kingdom, and another forest, etc? Or do you just want it all to be green?

If you want it diverse I will have to further edit the "plate" you give me, but at least I'll have an example to work off of when I start it.

Then again, I'll have to know a few more things such as....

-What's the time limit or preferred time table for finishing the terrain?
-What is the data amount that I am limited (as I'm sure you want some for custom units, perhaps)?
06-30-2007, 01:36 AM#12
Setreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ba1100n_Drag0n
((I'd be more happy with this map if it had Joan of Arc... that would be interesting... >>

This is a possibility (I'm actually a fan of Joan of Arc myself) though it would be something I might add in later. I want to focus on the planned stuff first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGOmen
Since I'm not 100% sure of how you want the single continent to be like, how about you just form it how you want in the center of the map and I'll work on it myself for you.

Personally, the thing I hate most when it comes to terraining a map is terraining the map. Haha, while that sounds sad, what I mean by it is if there's suppose to be a specific land in the middle of the map, I have trouble getting started with the "continents" shape (in terms of player force balance, at least, as I'm more of a RPG map maker). Afterwards I spend countless hours just polishing it up and making to look like a real world map paradise.


In other words, if you give me the dish, I'll place the meal on it.

Additionally, do you want a diverse set of lands on the continent? By this I mean, do you want one to be like a desert kingdom, one a snow kingdom, and another forest, etc? Or do you just want it all to be green?

If you want it diverse I will have to further edit the "plate" you give me, but at least I'll have an example to work off of when I start it.

Then again, I'll have to know a few more things such as....

-What's the time limit or preferred time table for finishing the terrain?
-What is the data amount that I am limited (as I'm sure you want some for custom units, perhaps)?

The 'dish' so to speak is just a giant circle surrounded by water. I can try to whip it up for you though I'm not sure how even it'll be. As for variation I'd like only a little (like if you use village maybe toss in some fall village tiles too). Do you want to talk on AIM or something?