WC3RRTS

Warcraft III Re-Real-Time-Strategy

As a long time RTS player who've tried out many different titles, amongst them the more known are Starcraft, DoW, C&C; I was highly disappointed with WC3's gameplay. I do not intend to pass any further judgment here, because each has his own favorites. However, for all RTS gamers who are interested in an RTS version of WC3 that features an environment similar to games I presented earlier, I am creating this map/series of maps.

The goals are as follows:

∙ Retain the original Warcraft units
∙ Remove creeps
∙ Revise the hero system
∙ Revise the economy system
∙ Increase macro and micro requirements by an extreme multiplier
∙ Turn micro and macro into mere accessories, and enable strategy as an actual aspect of the game.

→ While units shall retain their aesthetic attributes, their attributes along with their position in the techtree and their role in battle are all being reworked from the ground up.

→ Orcs are being replaced with Fel-Orcs for no specific reason.

→ The few players who got to play it so far described the gameplay as "weird" and "unusual". They were also unable to perform up to the potential that the map allows on their first tries. (nor am I able to reach it yet myself, though getting closer on each match).

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§ The Undead have been reworked and are available for the QA process. They require heavy testing to balance. i.e. make sure that all units and their abilities are useful in common situations. Things that are only useful rarely or never will be removed.

If you are interested in helping me test this, please reply.

If you want to ask any questions or give suggestions, please do. I realize that I did not go over many details, but this post has no pictures so I didn't want to drag it until forever. If there are any details you're specifically interested to know, feel free to ask.

Sounds oddly familiar. Starcraft was a big inspiration for me too, I wanted to emphasize regular unit micro likewise. Anyway, good luck with your project, can't think of anything more to say.

How are you revising the hero system? Just curious as to that. Revise the economy?

And how will items work if there aren't any creeps? Will there be "Goblin Merchants" and player shops still?

I'd also like to ask how you plan on changing micro/macro to a great extent. In other words? First post needs more information. . .

Otherwise best of luck to you.

EDIT:

Of course I realize that the map is in early-development and may not be able to answer all questions just yet.

I personally like AoM, where you could to hunt for food, not just build farms. You could also fish too. Prehaps implement that?

Haha, this is my favorite line. Anyways, what is left to do for the project? It sounds like its in a beta version and nearly done? And you really should post some screens if you can. We love screenshots....

I'd love to post screenshots, but since the intention was to use the original units the only real graphical additions are new ability icons. Well then, here's a little shot; Frost Wyrm's Icey Heart ability:


I haven't heard of your project until now, and from the little I read in his post I can tell that the two will not be related at all. This modification is giving drastic gameplay changes in directions that the other project is not taking.


;Ba1100n_Drag0n:

The hero system was redefined into what's more similar to the hero system in DC. Basically, heroes can no longer level up nor learn abilities or buy items. Instead, you research their abilities and you're able to tech-up their strength as your town techs-up. A specific usage of items may be reintroduced in the future, but as of now they're none.

By the mere changes already done, macro has been changed to an extent. Unlike WC3 where you can get along with one base and a few production structures for quite a while, the first thing you do in this game is expand 3 times and build 3 production structures, which only exponentially increases later on.
Micro is hard to explain, but basically it is around the idea that telling your units how to move and what to attack makes them stronger, rather than just a "use an ability micro". There are abilities though, almost every unit has at least 1.

;PenguinEmperor:
I'm afraid that won't be implemented. The players in the game will have to put maximum focus on their opponent, which will not allow them to effectively participate in minigames like hunting animals. Macro is intended to be based on zone control and constant expansion, thus the direct interference of collecting resources - whatever type they are - will be static.

Games like that KILLED the RTS definition. Build hut, kill hut was bearable, but RTS is Real-time strategy, not real time farming. Too much economy for a wargame. You end up spendin most of your game rebuiding farms, acquiring new sources of gold, stone, timber... you should be fighting battles.

Games like TA/TA:K, DoW, Zed pushed it in the right direction with a more territory-based economy.

Suit yoursel, Whitehorn. I liked it, and with proper defences, you'd never need to rebuild farms.

What have defences got to do with naturally expiring farms?

I'd like to hear everyone's preferences for a terrain-type. The terrain itself is already existent, but I'm not sure about the tiles..

Snow does it for me.

Here's an open test version for the Undead. All units' must have their value examined to see if they're worth their cost, whether they're overall useful, etc.

While I wrote a small AI for this, it is highly incapable of actually playing. This needs to be tested versus people (and yet I'm unable to host on b.net so I only got to test this with a few people on hamachi ). If you wish to test it with me, contact me on MSN: [email protected].
Otherwise, if with others, save replays of your games, and *please* write down comments with impressions, etc.

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Common build orders:

* Standard:
1. queue-up 6 acolytes, tell the first to build a mine, three crypts, another necropolis, and two extra mines up the hill.
2. produce ghouls from your crypts until you have 8. After the 6th acolyte, get a Deathknight. From the 2nd necropolis, get acolytes for one expansion.
3. When the Deathknight is ready, order it to run to the enemy base; tell ghouls to drop off their lumber then activate frenzy and make them catch up with the DK. keep filling your mines.
4. Get either Halls or Grave', eventually both. Start producing Revenants and Gargoyles.
5. --end--, proceed with whatever suits the situation.


* Gargoyle rush:
Similar to the other build, but build less ghouls and get the graveyard as soon as a crypt is ready. In the very beginning of the game, tell your acolyte to build a crypt first, only then a mine, and then the other two crypts.
--if your opponent did this, you're being attacked, and you still have no gargoyles, you may counter with banshee's possession.


* Power-macro:
Get 3 necropolises fast and don't go on an early attack. Fill-up 4 mines with acolytes asap and tech/build units like mad.
--if your opponent did this, you could try hunting down his necropolises with your early attack's DK, along with trying to pull his ghouls around from mining by microed spread attacks. Don't let him outmacro you early or you'll be in trouble. Don't try to kill his acolytes, they die too slow and are too cheap to replace.


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[edit] ignore the typo in the filename...

I tried it in SP. Feels weird though... No necromancers...

Also too many units. Lose the pyroguy. Also why do Frost Wyrm are made in your Necropolis/Halls/Black Citadel?

Ok this is purely idea input.
If I was to redesign the undead I would make them not just make corpses a secondary task, but a primary instead.
That could be done by introducing zombies and corpse wagon in Tier 1, as well as necromancers. Necromancers would cost an abudance of food but they could produce a unlimited number of permanent Skeletons. And perhaps introduce Liches who could make Death Knights which are also permanent, but so that one DK per Lich is made. DK and Skeletons would have negative regeneration rate while giving Liches and Necromancers auras that would negate their degeneration (WH idea stolen so badly). I was thinking of maybe making all skeletons produced by a necromancer become neutral hostile if Necromancer dies and killing Dk if his master Lich dies, but that remains an option only.
Enough to say Skeletons and DK are the bulk of your forces. This would force UD to play aggressively. In order to get the corpses they would have to rush opposing players with Zombies which they can either store in corpse wagon for later use or turn right on the spot into an skelly or a knight.

Interesting enough how come no one gives orcs a mobility option (I always thought they were more nomad like).
I would make their base a Lodge and replace burrows with tents, which produce food and warriors. Lodges and tents could just be packed and moved somewhere else, leaving armory and other buildings behind.

Humans. Make them the only race that has a powerful single shot healing. And give them shields and lot of it.

Yes, a mobile Orc always made sense to me too. Also, I have been thinking, prehaps you could add some new ships to shipyard, or even better, make a shipyard for each race? We have the models.

Anywho, my idea is to create aquatic goldmines, based on the shipwreck model, and have little cargo ships that could take the gold form the shipwrecks and bring it to a bigger ship, a mobile resource dump.

Why add ships when most maps don't have water which can make a strategic difference. You have a generic puddle or water surrounded by high cliffs with no access to.

Your suggestion could work in an open sea map. And idea is rather neat though. Mobile resource dump probably wouldn't work for any races though the races would be more buffed than any other.