Salbris' New Spells Discussions

Hey guys, recently I have been designing spells for an upcoming map of mine. I wanted to share a few ideas with the community, both for recognition and feedback. The map has about 200+ spells currently planned for it, 4 per hero.

Each spell I design Is only it's description, as of yet I plan to finishing designing this category of heroes then I plan to move onto starting the map's terrain, gameplay elements, and then I will start building the first 2 catergory of heroes into the map.

How Do Design my Spells?

Every time I start a new hero in my notebook I think of the characteristics of the unit, object, or concept the hero is based on. For example the first hero I am posting is called the "Cosmic Elemental". The spells I designed for this hero all have something do with space and space related phenomenons. Unlike some maps which seem to put little effort into spell creation I try to reach a good balance of fun factor, functionality, and realism. I want my spells to be fun and allow the user many chances to use but also follow the way such a thing would work. In my opinion realism allows users to use background knowledge of a subject to be able to defeat any major learning curves of spells. For example the "Fire elemental" acts like fire such that as it attacks it can set trees and units on fire that can further put others on fire. This allows users to understand the basic idea of a hero or spell without playing dozens and dozens of games to be able to fight them effectively.

What do I Want to Gain From This Thread?

I decided to start this thread, like I said to obtain feedback from the community about each of the heroes and spells I post. My hopes are that you will read about them and find errors in my thinking or find better ways to achieve the feel I want. I also want the community to have a better understanding of what I am planning. So after reading about the hero and It's spells I hope you can consider it and write a paragraph telling me what you think about it in terms of how interesting it is, if it could be made without much fuss, how well it fits the realism of the centered topic, how well the hero comes together as one entity and not just a bunch of spells with no connections, and finally how balanced it is with the game.

Remember while reading these that the map has a system of giving players a line up of heroes, when one dies the next one comes in it's place. If a hero seems too strong, it may be because it comes later in the game as late game heroes are made to be stronger then others.

Without further introduction:

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Cosmic Elemental:
(The 11th hero in the Elemental morph)

Spells:

Ambient Energy Charge:

The ele.(elemental, I use this short form for all heroes in this morph) begins to channel the ambient energy of the universe to itself. Gives a constant x mana a sec. charge until the unit moves, is attacked, or attacks/uses a spell. Also the ele. gains an enhancement that can be used on any other spell to increase it's effects. The increased amount depends on the strength of the enhancement. The strength of the enhancement is increased by reapplying this spell with an enhancement already active. Up to a max of 5 enhancement levels and the enhancement buff lasts for 30 secs. but is used up once a spelll is used.

Meteor Shower:

Begins a storm of meteors falling toward the earth across the whole arena. As a meteor hits the ground it causes a small explosion damaging units near it. The shower is strongest nearer to the ele. and weak farther away. The frequency, strength, and duration of the shower is increased with greater enhancements. In addition super meteors begin to fall with enhancement levels above 2. Super meteors are like normal ones but have a much larger explosion radius with a larger damage, and can also destroy trees.

Eclipse:

Sends the moon in front of the sun causing an artificial solar eclipse. For the duration of the spell the arena is in an artificial night. During the eclipse the shadow of the moon passes across the arena on the selected point. Anyone caught in the shadow will be blinded. Duration of the total effect, size of the shadow, and duration of the blind effect increases with higher enhancements. The target will also be silenced (unable to use spells) if the enhancement level is 3 or more.

Pet Star:

Allows the ele. to create a star from birth to death. The star begins as a stellar nebula and continues to grow into later stages of stars. The growth of a star depends on the work the ele. does to help it grow. Starting with a high level enhancement gives the star a good start, past the point where it will become a red giant at one point and eventually explode. The more mana channeled to the star via the Ambient Energy Charge spell increases the star's rating titled above the star as a number representing it's solar mass. A higher number means more extreme effects during the life and death of the star.

Useless White Dwarf- < 0.4
Just red giant phase- >0.4 and < 1.6
Average red giant and supernova- >1.6 and < 2.2
^ + neutron star/pulsar- >2.2 and <4.0
Red Giant+Supernova+Black Hole- >4.0

Those spells are beyond too complicated to fit into a tooltip. I want to see how you'd describe them in the amount of room you have in a tooltip...

pet stars seems really good, but what does it do? just grow a star? when does it damage units and for how much

I really don't like the Eclipse. Here's what I'd make of it, I don't care about how much triggering it would take - I'm not making it.

The ideas require so much text, they make my abilities look simple.

Other than that, I think they're great!

Eclipse - Calls forth the moon to cast a powerful shadow over target area for X seconds. Any units in that shadow are treated as if they were in the night.
Disambiguation: So night elf units would regenerate in that shadow.

Too true, these descriptions were meant for a better understanding of the spells. Of course, in game the spell will be explained much faster, but most of these words are straight from the notebook I use. When I write in there my spells always come out long.


Well obviously, they do damage pull units into them depending on what stage they are in. Stars like a neutron star will have much stronger gravity and will cause massive damage when a unit comes within melee range. Black Holes are obvious. The basic idea is that they are deadly and that players should obviously not go near the cosmic player.


For the text issue: look to what I said to Pyro.

For Eclipse: Why do you hate it?

To your suggestion: Definitely not, neither my map nor the hero uses any sort of effect around daytime/night conditions so the effect of creating a "moving night" is completely pointless. The idea that looking at an eclipse makes you blind was the focus here. I want a sort of stun effect that is unconventional but also works both realistically with the spell's concept and also allows a nice spell to use and play against.



Anyways, guys, thanks for all the comments this is exactly want I hoped would happen. Any spells you like in particular? Any other suggestions to make them better? Ready for another hero?

Today I was designing a long awaited hero, the sound elemental. For it I focused on the concept of sound with a really nice last minute addition of an unrealistic but interesting spell.

How is that obvious at all.

Obvious doesn't exist.

Well overall I couldn't understand those spells to the level I think I'm supposed to be able to... maybe put like an errata underneath the spell in small text or something to explain how it would work and interact with units.

My spells that I think that people may have troubles understanding (on forums) I'd put an errata. For the in game tool tip, I'd simplify it as much as I can.

Um... also... Eclipse. Yeah... you basically got 50 spells and smooshed them all into one effect... that's really not a spell anymore unless it's a random-based effects spell.

Okay, optimal critique:

Ambient Energy Charge
I can see that this is his trademark ability, because all of his other spells grow stronger due it's effect. It's an investment for other spells, I suppose. However, due to the fact that it also gives your hero an innate mana regeneration, there's no longer a harsh side effect for using this other then the fact that it only works when the hero is not in combat. Although, I think your hero is too reliant on this. There's no point in getting anything else if you don't get this first. This spell is a limiting factor in this hero's versatiliity.

Of course, if that was the point in this hero, then at least I pointed it out.

Meteor Shower
Is this spell channeling or not? The fact that it only releases small meteors without A.E.C. (the previous spell) hurts this skill very much. I know that it deals more damage as enemy units are closer, but I don't know what the casting range from the epicenter is nor whether it activates right away. This one lacks information that is crucial to its utility.

Eclipse
The only issue I see is: What kind of "blind" are you referring to? Blindness can be done in Wc3 in many ways. Blackening the screen? The standard Blind? Or something else?

Pet Star
I don't know about the name of "Pet Star". I'd like to think that a celestial body shouldn't be named or owned in that way. But, it's your spell and that's my opinion.

About the spell itself, I don't understand it. There's missing information; the description of the spell is somewhat vague in how it works. Does it gather solar mass overtime or is it totally dependent on the Elemental? What confuses me is that you start out with "The star begins as a stellar nebula and continues to grow into later stages of stars". It sounds to me as if the start grows on its own, but then you type about how the Elemental does all of the growth for it.

It's not obvious that giant glowing balls of super hot plasma would do immolation damage?



What didn't you understand?

Basically we have a channeled mana gain, and spell enhancement in one. Then a full arena effect where explosions from meteors occur randomly but more likely near the caster. Then a spell that literally blinds players caught in it's moving area. And finally a complex version of a hero that doesn't move but sticks by the character and has abilities based on the amount of energy you put into it.

Elipse has 50 spells in it?



Though the main point is to understand a proper balance for your mana so that you don't end up with just enhancements, because of this spell's mana per sec channel it makes the player almost want to sit and charge up. Now of course the enemy of the hero should probably chase him and not just let hi get away but this forces the player to be more passive then I lik my heroes to be. Reliant on a spell is fine because it allows a focus in a hero but not an overexageration of using random effects.



This should have been stated and I think a channel would more likely balance this easier but a non-channel also allows a funner time then just the ele. standing around for a bit. I was quite clear that the spell occurs over the whole arena. Activates right away? Opposed to what? waiting a minute or so? Trial and error takes the place of most unnessicary explaination.



I don't know any other kind of blindness then that of making the screen all white...



The name for this spell was difficult to find, but I usually put more effort. Yesterday for example I had to find a few names for these sound elemental spells, I finally had to come to Subtle Influence. I choose my names to suit the spells effects thus my hope is to make people a little more informed before even reading the tooltip. Pet star was chosen as it suits the idea of "raising a star" but I did have a bad feeling about it. Suggest names I need some. Some other ideas also include Child Star, Star Child, Life of a Star, Star Life, Star Birth... etc.

You don't understand? It says specifically that the star grows and that the ele. can help it's growth by using it's A.E.C. Like I said the more your channel the stronger it gets, and its strength is displayed as a number based on it's mass.

I don't care to explain it to you, but you don't say what the spell does so don't assume anything.

I did start this thread by introducing my spell making style:

"In my opinion realism allows users to use background knowledge of a subject to be able to defeat any major learning curves of spells. For example the "Fire elemental" acts like fire such that as it attacks it can set trees and units on fire that can further put others on fire. This allows users to understand the basic idea of a hero or spell without playing dozens and dozens of games to be able to fight them effectively."

The problem I see here is the lack of proper translation of communication. Your writing of the tooltips are too vague. If you need to go that far into explaining for me or anyone about a spell you have made, then there's something wrong there.

Consider the audience. It may be more about your ideas, but if the ideas aren't comprehendable, what's the point in ideas in the first place?

Give numbers. How small is small? How large is large? Is small 100 AoE or 300 AoE? Is large 500 AoE or 1000 AoE? You need some general numbers; Some words do not properly replace numbers, especially in a Wc3 map where people are concerned about how big something is or becomes and how much damage they can expect so they can avoid it or try to counter it in time.

Show limits. Even if you tell us how much damage something deals, what does that mean if there is no limit? A limit tells us(the audience) how effective something is againest an average hero. Example: Spell A deals 200 damage when the average hero has about 800 health. Or, there's only a few slows in the map, so slowing down an enemy is key to defeating enemy heroes. Something like that.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that you're ideas are flawed. The way you have written the tooltips are not too user-friendly, that's all. No more, no less.

I sure hope you're not intending to use those as tool tips. What I meant by 50 spells in one is that you're using so many effects in one. It's like Chain Forked Cluster Thunderclap Blizzard, it's so many effects in one spell.

Also... um... It'd be nice if you could display the actual tool tip you're going to use. I have the attention span of the average noob (may as well say average B.Net person) and although I have the skill to translate your skills... time just kills my skills like alcohol. Too much time is required to read those.

My map has not even been put into a physical creation yet these are the basic outlines for spells not the final tooltip. Damages and exact sizes (mainly damages) are not displayed because I have worked out exactly the progression of health and average damage. Some Sizes are displayed in accounts of adjectives like small and large because the everyday person should understand this is basic relation to Wc3 (Large is obviously not going to be smaller than a building and small is obviously not going to be larger than a small building.) Besides players won't only be using the spell once (hopefully) they will both be using it many times and hopefully play the map a few more times, thus exact numbers are pointless when a person can learn almost right away the size. Do you really need the exact numbers to understand the spells concept?

And what about my ideas not being very comprehend able? What don't you understand?



? Seriously what the heck are you talking about? This spell as exactly 2 effects, a temporary night and a moving blind causing shadow. Please tell me that isn't a lot...

I typed down general numbers, not exact. Even a simple A/B/C graded scale does well. That's all I'm asking for. All you have to do is change a few things, then I wouldn't have to raise questions anymore.

And I have already told you what I don't understand. I do not know if you are either being difficult or there's some miscommunication going on around us, but there's no point in persistantly asking the same question.