This mod will fail without major reworking.

Hey all.

First, the mod itself is amazing. Character creation, cameras, etc. I really respect what you've done.

--- HOWEVER ---

There is one major problem which leads to other major, major problems and is causing the total downfall of this wonderful mod.

Currently, the process for DMing is WAY TOO SLOW.

One has to go through 4-5 menus to spawn a single unit type. The hotkeys and such just don't cut it, it takes too long.

This is the same for things like special effects, minor alliance changes, neutral characters, camera views.

I understand that this is a lot of things to cover, and it may be near impossible to get them all on hotkey, at least with the current system. That's why there needs to be something new implemented, either very small, very fast menus or an input for specific commands. I.E. The chat input 'spawnunit' would allow one to then type in the unit/quantity they wanted to spawn.

The problem is lag. Not bad lag, not people on 28.8's. Decent, average lag. It takes time for menus to load, and online it doubles or even triples. It can take a full two or three seconds to load a menu, and when you have to get through 5 or 6 to spawn a specific unit it can take upwards of 10-15 seconds. Not to mention having to type the unit, place them, etc.

Coming from an experienced DM of Starcraft and other games, not to mention the actual pen and paper, I just find the interface way too clunky to get anything done in a decent amount of time to make it worth the effort. Trying to ally with certain players while unallying others (i.e. the 'police' effect, when someone attacks townspeople. You don't want to harm them all, just the one breaking the law) is also a clunky process. Special effects, as I mentioned, are even worse. Especially ones that need timing.

Not having to know the number.. That can of course come with time and usage (and maybe a decent list ;) ), the problem is timing the effects with really, well, anything. Since you have to get through a minimum of 3-4 menus for most things, which would translate into about 8 seconds, the effect is long over by the time you're trying to do whatever you're trying to do.


Currently the DM interface is just plain clunky and slow. I usually have a lot of patience for this, but when you're experienced you know that getting things done fast is the only way to do it, and it's just natural to get them done fast.. This is almost impossible to do with the current build.

And with a very user-friendly (I'll give you that..) albeit extremely slow interface, you get the following results for DMs:

a) Inexperienced newbies fooling with controls.


That's it. You lose all the experienced DMs who are used to doing things fast, because of the fact that it's impossible.

And therefore, you get no DMMod games being played because of the fact everyone has been turned off by the totally inexperienced DMs (who tipe liek this u no??//) and the -real- DMs have been turned off by the clunky interface.

I don't have much in the way of suggestions. You guys are the brilliant ones at this. Just pointing out the problem..

Thanks,
Obi


P.S. Don't hate me for being so harsh. I really, really want this to suceed, which is why I'm hitting it so hard. Think of it as tough love. :P

All true I'm afraid.

First of all, thanks for ur comments.

Well, I know the DM MOD is hard, EVERYBODY knows. People are used to simple click-action RPGs and other maps that are very simple. I'm not saying they are bad, but of course, they are very "Limited".

The DM MOD is the most powerfull tool for DMs on Warcraft3. All this power must be represented in-game by a simple way. But, how to do this? Actually, there are two methods: through Dialogs and through Chat Commands.

The DM MOD is not a "simple" full triggered map, is the first "real" MOD out there. With this, I mean that you can't make an Interface for the DMs by making pre-placed things or having a corner in the map where are all the units are pre-placed and you just have to click to spawn them (maybe you have seen this on another map, but it's just ONE map). So actually, there are only 2 ways to make a DM Interface that can work with ANY map created by users. And I decided to add both (maybe there are not "all" the chat commands but there are the most important).

You CAN create a unit directly from chat command, so there are no clicks. Most of the most used functions have their Chat command quick version.

You may not pretent to be a good DM on the first 3 games. I could create a simple DM System but, of course, it would not be as powerfull as the current one. This power has high a price to pay, and it's the interface.

You may not pretend to create a GREAT plot story in 2 clicks. This MOD is powerfull but not easy to use, and that's why it comes with 4-5 guides and manuals. Also you can find in the web a set of Tips & tricks and a DM Tutorial. I doubt you can find another MOD or "map" with the bunch of documentation the DM MOD comes with.

And about the Bnet games, there is a speciall DM MOD channel on US EAST, and you can allways come to the DM MOD IRC channel and ask there to play a game.

So, I will say it for last time: the DM MOD is not for peple that wants a quick and simple action game. This mod has strong DM system built-in and can do almost all the things you can imagine in a story in warcraft world. It requires patience, and pre-prepared stories. You may NOT create stories "on the fly". Being an experienced DM you should know it.

however, thanks for your opinion. I'll try to improve it again and again so I can make all the users happy :D

I agree with the time problem.

emote_sweat I repeat:


DM MOD requires patience and practice. Otherwise you won't enjoy all the features it provides.

The time does require the people who are playing to be patient, and I've actually been blesses with several random games where people will wait 15 mins to setup everything for a good game. There's always tricks to make the game look good.

In order to set up a good game and keep the players occupied, the DM helper is a great feature, especially the "Find the Hostage" quest, where once they find the hostage, the REAL story begins :-)

The people I always play out will usually wait 20 minutes and leave out of boredom. I never tried the pre-made quests but I should...

Hey miki, what happened to maxing out the menus?

Yes, maybe a small maximization of the dialogs will be done, but i have lots of exams these days and i'm really buzy. wait for my return! :D

Hey ive played as the DM about 4 or 5 times now...and I cant find the frkn unit list or manuals...i looked everywhere...where are they?????

Please no grave digging topics that are more than a year old. Start a new thread.