New Footmen Map - Looking to form team

I am looking to form a team for a new footmen frenzy type map. Having played the game extensively (i'd say I've played hundeds of games of it, maybe even a thousand) and I am disgusted how badly it is unbalanced. I want to keep the spirit of the game alive but at the same time, modernize it. Here are the main goals:

Landscape Retune

Footmen Frenzy has become boring to look at. I want to retool the terrain, not to be overly complicated or busy looking, but I want to increase the size of the middle fighting area as well as make a visual change just to acknowledge the next step in this great map.

Hero Retooling

This is the biggest part of re-doing the map. The heroes are the essence of the map and a huge problem is that not every hero is viable. Some people random a certain hero, know they have ZERO chance to win, and simply leave, ruining the game for their team and everyone else. I want to make it so that no matter what hero you have, you serve a purpose, whether you are a support hero, nuking, melee, etc...

Item Retooling

This is another important part of the game. The items in the newest versions of Footmen Frenzy are decent, I like the recipe system they have, but I have a lot of concern over some of the items you can get with certain heroes. If a team is pooling certain heroes to get certain recipes, the game can end quickly due to the mechanics of certain items combined with the innate abilities and stats of some heroes. Some recipes should also be more limited, having different cooldown periods than others to reflect their value.

Mercenaries

This is one of the other interesting aspects of the game. Mercenaries provide good players with a variable to tackle challenges they face. Both Scrolls of Beast are gone? Guess I'll buy a dispeller and take it all away. I love the counters that mercenaries provide, but a big problem is that mercenaries are too cheap and too effective in some instances. The biggest example I can give is the Granite Golem, costing 3500 gold. I did an experiment where I had two friends play on my team, and simply give me their 2000 gold each and leave. With 4000 gold, I waited only a couple of minutes and managed to get the golem before anyone even sent their forces into the middle for the first fight. Suffice to say, I completely destroyed everything, was told I was hacking (hehe) and everybody left in frustration at an impossible-to-stop strategy.

I am seeking to fix the imbalances and inconsitencies while keeping the spirit of the game alive. HatoUP and Windablizard, the two guys who helped make the map, will still be credited but the massive amount of changes I am looking to make will ensure we have both a new name and a new look to usher in a new era of Footmen FRENZY!

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Positions

All. I am simply looking for anybody/everybody who has any skills ot help out. Terrainists, triggerers, scripters, people good with creating heroes, spells, pretty much anything that encompasses itself with map creation I am looking for. I am mostly going to concern myself with the balance and development aspect - I am looking for experienced people who know how to use the editor at a high level. I will be doing a lot of testing and to that effect I will need many testers. This won't be a secret-project, I will openly invite dozens of testers if people want to come. The more the better. However, while the map is in beta, I would ask any potential testers to not host any battle.net games with the maps we create. Even if you think its perfect and we just need to rename it from beta to final, I don't want the map to be released uncompleted. That said, I look forward to working with the Wc3Campaigns community which has been here for a long time.

My email is [email protected] if you need to contact me, but otherwise I will be looking at this thread mostly.

Thanks,

-Zarx.

I'm a fan of Footmen Frenzy but the map goes boring over time, so you've got good ideas here.. Yeah the terrain of FF maps is boring..

Perhaps I could help with the map terrain. I'll go for terraining for your map and show my work if needed... Just PM me if you got something to say about terrain...

I may even create some mercenaries...

And lastly, +rep me evry time I create something for your map, I'm vying for a custom title at Wc3c!! (offtopic)

I definitely wish to do this. Footman Frenzy always seemed like an almost awesome game.

I can do pretty much everything.

I never understood this. If the map series is called "Footman Frenzy", then why are heroes the most important part? Shouldn't the creator be spending the most time creating unique, balanced, and interesting spawns rather than making a stack of spawns and then spending the whole time on heroes? This is Footman Frenzy, is it not? Not Hero Frenzy (With Some Spawns). I'm all for the heroes, but as I've suggested in other FF maps, there should be a mode that either removes heroes or limits their power.

Heroes should be a support, not a determining factor. Otherwise all you have is a small-scale arena-like AoS. In fact, the newer FF's have literally become just that. Recipes, emphasis on items, masses of heroes... It's like a cramped AoS.

I haven't got time to work on this map directly. However, I'd be more than happy to provide SPAWN ideas. Not heroes. Spawns. Like I said, the spawns (footmen) should be the most influential and outstanding part of a Footman Frenzy map. The way they are now, it's like a TD with a few crappy towers and a bunch of crazyass heroes to kill the spawns.

FF maps should have more focus in spawns rather than heroes. Heroes only augment the power of the spawns, act as a support to your units.

Let players not only train a Footman but a variety of units like a Rifleman or Dwarven Warrior and even some spellcasters. (adding Races are good, but in my opinion that would become a Footwars map just like Panto's, which I've been playing everytime I get tired from modding. Adding races is also a bit tricky when it comes to attributes and more). Don't forget to balance the attributes/stats/spell effects/etc. stuff of units and heroes. Any mapper knows that a totally balanced maps is impossible, but you've got to make it as balanced as possible.

I could provide ideas with Races and their spawns and individual attributes, if you are interested in adding Races in an FF map.

There is a promise that I'll retune the landscape and spice it up a bit. I'll work on the terrain and layout when I got spare time.

Im sorry about my long absence, but I have NOT forgotten about this project. As for the comment about the spawn, I would agree that units need to play a more important role in the game. However, I still want to keep the avenue of choice open for those who want to upgrade their units and those who want to pump up their hero.

In Footmen Frenzy 5.4-AR (the golden version everyone plays nowadays), sometimes the only counter to certain heroes (such as the Angel of Doom, probably the strongest hero in the entire game) is to upgrade your units early and often. Sometimes when you get a hero, its imperative to stock him with items to win the game. In this approach, players can choose whether to try to win with armies or with heroes, and my design philosophy for this updated FF is that the choice should remain. At the current level, however, armies are a bit too weak against heroes.

Just a few ideas I had about the beginning of the match:

- All people start out with footmen (OBVIOUSLY) however the problem that you see in many games is that you wait at least 7-10 minutes for the big fight in the middle to begin because people wait for footmen to spawn and then nobody wants to be the first in the middle because its more advantageous to come in after everyone else
- I had the idea to pre-spawn about two dozen footmen at the start of the game and then have the footmen continue to spawn at the regular rate, just so the main fight can start earlier
- Remove the 500 gold shockwave that one-shots footmen for a good 10-15 minutes from the start of the game to prevent somebody from bringing it out during the main fight and annihilating everything

Anyway let's get ourselves a forum and some contact information so that we can truly form a team and begin work on this project. I think our goal is extremely attainable, doesn't require too much aesthetic work like skinning/modelling that campaigns are heavy on, but rather more of the trigger/map editting as well as balancing. I may pursue a re-skin or re-model of some of the heroes later on but I think the important first step in this project is to set out our goals for balance and accomplish them the best we can.

Design flaw. Bad.

Another design flaw. Besides item dependency which is ALWAYS bad, I shouldn't be able to pick a hero and be forced to spend my money on items.

Then this shouldn't be a FF map. I'd prefer more emphasis on spawns. In fact, the entire game should be spawns. The heroes should only be supplements.

That's a big design flaw; one I always hated. Solution is next.

Good, now let's build on that. Spawn the footmen, then FORCE at least half from each player to go into the field. (remove control until this is done). I say half because then players can decide when to send in the rest of their forces.

INSANE design flaw. That item shouldn't even exist. Period.

I'd be happy to help you with this, I really would. But the only condition I have is that you're willing to listen, think outside the box, and get away from the generic FF.

I have a forum already set up that we can use. If you want to use it, PM me and I can give you the link (so you can have a look at it). I'll give you contact info while I'm at it.

I always felt a good solution to the delayed fights would be to give an awesome bonus to the team with the most units in the middle.

Bad idea. It could create a really bad snowball effect. If a team waits and sends in 10 units when everyone else has 9 in there, then the late team automatically gets that bonus even if he did nothing. And once he wins the center, he can keep sending units, and so on.

Still awaiting a response from Zarxman about using my forums for his project.

My Opinions

The main base should be divided into 5 parts: Main Building, Altar, Tower, Item Shop, Creep Shop. Only main building would be vulnerable, and the others would need to be in corners of it. These other buildings would be race-specific (In the beginning you choose race and these units become of that race's. After that they are upgraded individually of the main building.). This will need a custom-pathing file but is doable.
Altar: Altar resurrects your hero, either the normal way of waiting or the expensive and instant way. Also, depending on the mode you also train hero here (In race-specific heroes mode.) or in the Taverns in the location where they currently are.
Tower: It is just what it sounds to be, a tower. It shoots creeps and is invulnerable. This means that it cannot be destroyed without destroying the player, this stops people from "Farming" certain players. You either kill the player or get the heck out of there befrore that tower pwns you. There should be many different upgrades for this one.
Item Shop: This place sells items, these items are race-specific. Kinda like ladder shops, with the item quality rising at the time you upgrade your main building. This would make people want to have different races, to have access to wider variety of different items and therefore different strategies. There should be AoE healing scrolls, Debuff scrolls, other support stuff.
Creep Shop: Creep shop sells creeps. Kinda like normal Footies, but these would also be race specific and you would 'unlock' different units as you advance in the tech of your main base. The creeps wouldn't be bought one at a time, but one could buy "Mortar Teams" which would spawn 5 mortar teams in your base. This would add varied units to the game.

Also, for diversifying tech, this is what i'd have in mind.
At the beginning, everyone starts with a _Generic Main Building_. First upgrade to it is free, this would add on different units from the very beginning, instead of just attack-moving footies. Also, you couldn't train hero before upgrading this first upgrade. When you upgrade it, your other buildings (Tower, Creep / Item shops and Altar also upgrade to given counterparts.)

Tech Trees: * donates tier number.
Generic Main Building
*Human (Footmen)
**Human Ranger Tier 1 (Riflemen)
***Human Ranger Tier 2 (Sorcerers)
**Human Melee Tier 1 (Knights)
***Human Melee Tier 2 (Steam Tanks..?)
*Orc (Grunts)
**Orc Ranger Tier 1 (Troll Headhunters)
***Orc Ranger Tier 2 (Shamans)
**Orc Melee Tier 1 (Raiders)
***Orc Melee Tier 2 (Taurens)
*Undead (Skeletons)
**Undead Ranger Tier 1 (Skeleton Archers)
***Undead Ranger Tier 2 (Crypt Fiends)
**Undead Melee Tier 1 (Ghouls)
***Undead Melee Tier 2 (Abominations)
*Night Elf (Archers)
**Night Elf Ranger Tier 1 (Dryads)
***Night Elf Ranger Tier 2 (Druids of the Talon)
**Night Elf Melee Tier 1 (Huntresses)
***Night Elf Melee Tier 2 (Druids of the Claw)

These tiers aren't exact, and there could be more but you do get the idea, right?

I would be interested in helping in this project. I can do some basic skinning (Nothing very good though..) Know most of trigger / object editor and can terrain. Also, i work as an idea bag that has no bottom.

lol? people who play footman wars play it for the heroes :P, no one cares about the creeps, they're just there for money and xp. In fact i wouldn't be surprised if the original maker of dota wanted a less chaotic footman wars, so he went on and made an aos centered on heroes. Because this is what these maps are all about, heroes.


By the way a long time ago (2-3 yrs), i got fed up with the crappy footman wars out there and i made one myself, it's not balanced but it features a lot more than frenzy does, you pick the terrain you want to fight on and the max upgrades levels, bounty level, there are custom heroes, there's like 6 races...and some other stuff.
It's open source, you can build on it if you want to instead of starting from scratch.

version 2.0 would crash sometimes, possibly due to leaks, i never got around to figure out why.
version 1.03b should work fine.

MAKE.. THEM.. CARE!!!

Yeah, that sounds fair. Assuming we make the map unwinnable without decent control of creeps, people will be more interested in the creeps. Part of why people don't care about the footies is the fact that some heroes completely annihilate them. (With the exception of taurens, which are still capable of something due to the really nice amount of HP.)

Yeah, but in generic footies it gets to the point where both sides have level 4 creeps with 26/26 upgrades, and it just gets retarded. Heroes then become useless. Footies is just a terribly misconstrued, there's so few decent maps in the genre.

I thought of an answer to that in half a second, it even exists in TFT ladder: Armor Types. Instead of the god-retarded "Orcs deal bonus dmg to undead!" there should be a wide variety of armor types. Your enemy teched for dryads? Buy a support group of mortar teams and rain death on them from afar.

Regarding the heroes.. Yeah, very late in the game some heroes tend to feel like useless, however, assuming that they were given more support skills they could still be useful, but not be overpowering in other stages of the game.


Okay, i just disagree here. The amount of decent maps doesn't make the genre suck, that'd be like saying "AoS's are horrible because dota sucks.". The genre, as it is, isn't bad. The execution is, less faggotry and fanboyism, more strategy and thinking.

That's at least what i'm thinking.

Okay, footies itself isn't terrible. The maps are, which makes it seem like a terrible genre because there are so few decent maps. The idea is great, but few people are able to actually execute it well.

And the guy who made this thread hasn't even said anything >.>

EDIT: Changed the wording in my previous post, hope it makes a bit more sense.