What makes a map bad?

Doing this research, I'm expecting to avoid the most voted issues in further projects. Also, this thread may be helpful for you, map developers, avoid making bad quality maps.

All of them except the bottem 3.

Well i hesitate between many things but i finally choose the one i would consider the worst wich is [bad gameplay.....]

but a map [not balanced] sux, at least u can still have little fun using abuse to show your the best but really it quickly become senseless and booring, and when other use them against you, you quickly loose all interest in the game ( unless you think you can still win even if the other cheat). also a game too hard will discourage anyone if when u say this time i will win and still for the 30 th time you loose (at least you will still play it if you think it is possible that one day you will win). too easy is cool but when u finish the game u might never play it again because you will have discover everything about the map and lost all interest in it.

[Bad Terrain] not major probleme i would say but still if you want your map to be professional you need to give some eye candy to it or people might think well it is a half done map, quickly finish or unfinish, not great (unless game play is amazing and then people will say ohhh what a waste a so good map with a so bad terrain and look)

[Long or Short] is not really a probleme unless very long or very short because they will always be people who want short map between a break or while at work, and people who want a long map to spend their day off on...so as long as the map is good it will be ok.

i forgot the other thing but i think this is most of what i wanted to say except for cinematic, make some if u like it is not important as i give only a little plus to map, but make people able to skip them if they like , nothing is more booring than to see for the 100th time a F***ing long 2 hour cinematic wich sometime can even be very badly done....So yes to cinematic but with skip option...

Thats all

You forgot one option, "lack of originality" I realy hate playing the same map over and over again only by a different author, like the oh so may tower deffence maps. But a bad/no story situation also puts a serius damper on the way I feel about a map.

I agree!

I answered lack of information, the thing i hate the most is having no clue what i am supose to do. Make good use of the quest menu, every map should use it.

Something that isnt on your list is too large file size, and poor lag management.

Custom music is a big one. I hate it. Makes maps ultra big, and gets annoying after the second time its played.

If there was a "none of the above" I would have voted for that.

Making bad maps is an art which many are naturally extremely good at.

Bad story or no story at all
Uh.... ? Whats wrong with "kill everything that moves with extreme prejudice"?

Lack of doodads/ Low-detailed or bad quality terrain
In many maps this is appropriate, as to reduce loading time. And if the gameplay is good who cares if the terrain is rubbish? (ever heard anyone on b.net complain about the terrain? I havn't). Good looking terrain is a plus, but you cant define it by doodads per sq ft or anything (when it comes to terraining, less is often more)

Unbalanced game (very difficult of very easy game)
Some maps revolve around finding the unbalances (ie Footman Wars g.o.d). If theres lot of unbalances, they tend to cancel each other out. If the only unbalance is beastmaster, the map should be banished to ladder.

Short or very long maps
There is a place for both, altough I cant say I'm fond of those maps that start with the victory/score screen. (yeah yeah it's a bug)

Very common map style/Bad map style
Not nessecarly bad. In some cases the variety is good. (altough usually this will be a turnoff for me)

Boring gameplay
This is the winner, but how to define boring? If everyone thinks your map is boring, then it's bad. But this could also be called "unpopular", really hard to define and not useful.

Lack of quests/map instructions
Dont need quests. Instructions are nice, but not essential. Some maps dont need them at all. Some maps which should have instructions, but dont, can be a bit annoying. But really, it just means theres more to learn the hard way.

Nothing special in the map (no custom abilities, items, units or models)
Not always a problem, another case of "Short download/loadtime = Good". Music is okay if it's good and appropriate.
Good use Example = Doom, Weedworld.
Bad use example = Legends RPG Final

Many cutscenes
I'd probably quit after the second one :)
Few cutscenes/ No cutscenes
This is a GOOD THING. A cutscene at the start and/or end, if it's done really well, and doesn't last long, is maybe okay.

Other - Polish
Doesn't matter at all. Polish is nice, but people will still play maps where every tooltip is innacurate and in some cases completely inappropriate, and all the models are totally out of place etc....

Many of them totally depends on what kind of map it is.
If it's a campaign then the story-line is extremely important. Some RPG's also use storylines, but what does a map such as Rival Nations or Enfo's Team Survival need storylines for?

Terrain probably doesn't matter in footman wars and TD's, but is alpha and omega in a Cinematic.

So it makes it kind of tough to decide what to vote for, so I just voted for those things which irritates me when I play custom games.

but if the map is the XXXXXcopy of the map (whatever), and if it give some plus to the map or better ideas or gameplay then even if not original i will play it...
but off course i rather like some new never seen before map type and gameplay, but not as important as boring i think, for if u are bored then that mean u don't have fun, and then it mean the map sux, for the only reason people play map is to have fun...

Bad story or no story at all

Depends on the map. Arenas don't need a good story, but tend to be fun, while a mission without a story (or a bad mission directive, like destroy enemy base) is a bad thing.

Lack of doodads/ Low-detailed or bad quality terrain

If there are no doodads on the map, that may be a bit of a turnoff, but I personally have played a whole lot of good maps that have a terrible terraining but are good because of other reasons. That of course won't mean that people can simply forget the terraining part...

Unbalanced game (very difficult of very easy game)

Players are different, easy players will like easy games, hardcore players will like hard games. Definition of unbalanced is of course different: if you have a game that can sometimes be won easily and sometimes hardly just because it's up to pure luck (no balancing was done to prevent that), it sucks. Sometimes, however, things may seem unbalanced, but are not (for instance, check out the Zerg and the Protoss in Starcraft. At the first glance no one dared saying that those two races are balanced. The Zerg had one hell of an early start, while the Protoss were slow. But people forgot that the Protoss had units that could kill a bunch of Zerg in no time. That's balanced. You can, however have two identical races and a single ability will make one more powerful (check out the Bloodlusted Ogres in Warcraft II).

Short or very long maps

Depends on situation (I agree with above comments)

Very common map style/Bad map style

Hm, define Bad map style...

Boring gameplay

We've got the winner. A map is boring - I won't play it. A map is fun - I'll play it again (and again (and again (...))).

Lack of quests/map instructions

Depends on maps (Arenas need little or no quests and map instructions, missions need many).

Nothing special in the map (no custom abilities, items, units or models)

Doesn't need to be, Warcraft has enough variability already. Of course the advanced mappers will always try to invent something new to spice up their creations. I tend to look on my maps as babyes - they need to grow up before they can date other people :)

Many cutscenes
Few cutscenes/ No cutscenes

I'll answer both at the same time. I hate it when there's a long cutscene and I can't cancel it. Each time I start to play the map, I need to see the same stuff over and over again. Is it so hard to make a "Cancel Cutscene" command? No, it just takes a couple of minutes. But I've only seen such commands with the best of the best. Why's that?

9/10 times a map that is edited by someone without asking the author, makes the map worse

What do you have against polish? I'm from Poland man! So watch it! j/k :ggani:

OK so to make this post look like no spam -> here's my opinion:

* Bad story or no story at all
If it's a melee map then it doesn't need any story at all lol.
It's not that important but it gives a little more excitement to a map.
A good story is a cool thing and makes you play the map sometime again.
Some maps don't need a good story though - like Tetris :)

* Lack of doodads/ Low-detailed or bad quality terrain
Graphics ussually give a big + to gameplay.
I'm not saying that you should put a rock every 2 metres in your map. But doesn't a terrain like this look too boring?:
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
GrassGrassGrassGrass|DirtDirtDirtDirtDirtDirt|GrassGrassGrass
Sorry for putting that Grass\Dirt thing but I'm just too lazy to put an in-game pic of it ;)

* Unbalanced game (very difficult of very easy game)
A very easy game never pissed me off but a v-difficult one made me use cheats and I HATE to use cheats. It spoils the whole fun :nono:

*Short or very long maps
Deffinately doesn't make a map bad. Unless it's a: here kill this villager in this 2x2 map using your infernal juggernaut :D
If you get to do something different all the time and not: "and now kill the 274th Dreadlord!" in the middle of the map then a it can be long.

* Very common map style/Bad map style
Some map styles that show up in common don't make a map bad. It's just that playing something new once in a while is waaaaay cooler.

* Boring gameplay
You mean like -> here have 120 grunts and crash those 40 guard towers?
Of course boring gameplay spoils a map. I ain't playing WC3 just cuz female night-elves look sexy :D

* Lack of quests/map instructions
If you the map has a new type of gameplay then it needs instructions. Else don't make a "Now Select Thrall and move him to the next circle" in your campaign.
Optional quests are a cool thing especially when they effect later maps and/or give you some cool item that you can use for the rest of the campaign and/or map.

Nothing special in the map (no custom abilities, items, units or models)
I still play normal WC3 maps with pleasure. This doesn't spoil a map.

Many cutscenes
If you make 'em skippable and pause the units so your hero doesn't get killed during a cinematic then it's OK to make many cutscenes.

Few cutscenes/ No cutscenes
It depends on what type of map you're making.

Other
LACK OF INNOVATIVE STUFF

These are just my opinions. They don't have to be similar to yours.
;)

Martinez

I'm not sure if you were specifically focusing on RPG maps with this poll; if you were, then definately I'm voting strongly for "Boring or inappropriate abilities." Nobody wants Earthquake or Tranquility for their ultimate when the other players are running around with massive, monster killing abilities and leaving you and your channelling spell behind.

Especially since "Spellbook" abilities allow you to *really* diversify what your heroes can do, it's very disappointing for me to see the same lousy 3 skills + ultimate set up.

Unbalanced game, Boring story, and boring gameplay. I voted for boring story because it's the primary one I think that sucks. I once played a RPG, awesome models, skins, spells, gameplay, etc. But the story was AWWFFULLL, so I just hated the map, I can't remember the name though.